ADVERTISEMENT

And so it begins....Iraqi refugees arrested for ISIS and other terror ties

lawpoke87

I.T.S. Legend
Gold Member
Dec 17, 2002
28,741
7,388
113
(CNN)Two Iraqi refugees arrested this week on federal terror-related charges were in communication with each other, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Both men are Palestinians who wereborn in Iraq and came to the United States as refugees, according to the U.S. Justice Department. And both are accused of lying to immigration officials about their alleged ties to terrorist organizations. The two men were arrested Thursday.


Omar Faraj Saeed Al Hardan, 24, of Houston, was charged with attempting to provide material support to ISIS.

Aws Mohammed Younis Al-Jayab, 23, of Sacramento was charged with making a false statement involving international terrorism.

Citing social media communications, the criminal complaint against Jayab said he spoke with an unnamed Texas resident about weapons and training in Syria. That unnamed individual is Hardan, according to the law enforcement source.
 
So... the system works?

1 arrested for talking about providing support for terror, one arrested for lying about talking about providing support, ~ 3,000,000 continuing the longstanding tradition of refugees being magnitudes less likely than native born Americans to commit crimes. In 2014 15 native born Americans were arrested for providing material support to ISIS, 20 died fighting for ISIS. I'm sure there were more in 2015.

The real story is how damn well the UN/State Department/DOD/NSA/FBI screens these people.

Also funny France actually is regularly facing attacks by ISIS, and they have since announced they will welcome 50,000 more refugees. And we regularly call the French cowards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eastcane and WATU2
So... the system works?

1 arrested for talking about providing support for terror, one arrested for lying about talking about providing support, ~ 3,000,000 continuing the longstanding tradition of refugees being magnitudes less likely than native born Americans to commit crimes. In 2014 15 native born Americans were arrested for providing material support to ISIS, 20 died fighting for ISIS. I'm sure there were more in 2015.

The real story is how damn well the UN/State Department/DOD/NSA/FBI screens these people.
.

Huh? Guess you missed the part that these two passed the screening process and were arrested due to their terror related activities here.
 
I guess you forgot to read the rest of my post...

Well....ISIS has been active abroad for what...the past 18 months. The number of refugees currently living in the U.S. from Iraq and Syria is very small compared to the 320 million people currently living in the U.S. So even if it's a 15 to 2 ratio over the past twelve months the odds of a native born individual being associated with ISIS is far smaller then a refugee from the region. Again....the fact that our screening process is being deceived by false documentation should alarm us especially considering the current effort to bring admit people from Iraq and Syria into this country.
 
some are military terrorists.

The rest are social terrorist;
They do not 'blend'. they just want to change the western culture.

European countries are trying to send them back as quick as possible.
 
The guy actually charged with wanting to support terrorism came to the US in 2009. The UN High Commission on Refugees takes ~1 year to screen a refugee and refer them to a random country. The US takes ~18 months to do its screening. The guy is 24 in 2016 - 7 years living in the US, - 2.5 screening. He was 15 when he started the process and was 17 when he came to the United States.

So your theory is that he pretended to be a refugee in 2009 in order to go through the UN process and get randomly assigned to some country, and then live there following the laws for 7 years, and then try to get in touch with terrorists in order to try to do something bad? Like that was his nearly decade long plan? Seems legit.

His "fraud" charge is based on his application for naturalization, not his refugee status. Because it has now been determined that he lied, he did want to be a terrorist.

Again, the odds of a refugee being a criminal or threat to other Americans far less than a native born American. The ratio doesn't change because there is a new terrorist group.

Trying to get in under a refugee visa would be the stupidest possible method of gaining entrance into the US. You could just walk across the Mexican border, or get a student Visa or a tourist Visa and be here in a couple of months. Or you could hatch a plan that involves randomness, intense screening, and years of waiting...

Irrational fear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WATU2
Ironic....Obama used that same phrase "irrational fear" as he dismissed the threat of ISIS while we watched and did nothing as they gained power, money and territory. Being wrong again will cost American lives.
 
I am fairly certain the ratio with those that probably tried and failed is quite large.
 
Are planned and organized rapes of hundreds of women by large groups of immigrants considered terrorism? Wonder if Germany thought these were irrational fears?
 
Godwin's law in action.

Doesn't Goodwin's Law require that someone mentions Adolf Hitler or Nazi's? The mention of Germany refers to the present situation and what occurred in Cologne.
 
Incidents of rape is lower in Europe than in the United States... Germany has less than1/3rd the incident of rape in the US (9.4 per and 27.3 per 100k). So any report of widespread Muslim gangs (or anyone else) running around is vastly overblown. Any individual instance is, of course, intolerable.

But pretending this is some sort of widespread atrocity worthy of excluding an entire group of people is clear hyperbole, if not xenophobia.

Damn facts, all getting int he way of a good anecdote.
- - - -


And yes, there are many who have an irrational fear of terrorism in the US. Lets list the entirety of terrorist attacks in the last 6 years:

1) 2011 Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot and 6 others killed but an American young suburban white guy
2) 2012 Benghazi riots/attack/whatever killed 4 Americans in Libya by a mob of angry Libyans (terrorism, not terrorism... lets count it)
3) 2012 Sikh Temple in Wisconsin shot up, 6 killed by a middle class conservative Christian American white supremacist
4) 2013 Boston Marathon Bombing kills 3. American Citizens with roots in Russia blow up people to show off to Muslim terrorists.
5) 2015 Charleston church shooting kills 9 people. Shooter was white protestant American male who really loved the confederate battle flag.
6) 2015 San Bernardino shootings killed 14 people, an immigrant and his wife murdered people in the name of Allah

17/42? The Muslim terrorists aren't even keeping up. Let alone leading the pack.

In that same period of time there were more than 1,700 mass shooting in the United States that weren't committed by a Muslim terrorist. For some reason we dont officially count as terrorism:

- Community College shooting in Oregon, white guy kills 9 people
- Military Recruitment shooting in SC, Kuwaiti Muslim kills 5
- Maryland school shooting, white guy kills 5
- Alturas shooting, white girl kills 4
- Navy Yard shooting, white guy kills 13
- Arson shooting in Florida, hispanic guy sets apartment building on fire and murders 7 as they run out
- White guy kills 6 on a kill spree in Santa Monica
- Family murder by a white guy in Washington kills 5
- Newton school shooting, white kid goes crazy and kills 28
- White engineer in Minneapolis learns hes going to be laid off and kills 7
- Crazy white kid thinks he's the joker and shoots 12 people in a movie theater
- White guy kills 6 people in a coffee shop in Seattle
- University gets shot up in California by a white dropout, kills 7
- An Asian guy shoots up a sauna in Georgia, killing 5
- White guy shoots up a beach in California, kills 8
- Hispanic guy shoots up an IHOP in Nevada kills 5

That's just scratching the surface in the last 5 years. There were more than 350 mass shooting in just 2015: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/heres-a-map-of-all-the-mass-shootings-in-2015/ The portion committed by Mulsims in the US is insignificant.

More than 5,000 people will be shot and killed by police (most of them deserving to be shot, but still a big number). Heck, 188 people have been executed in the United States in the same 5 years = more people have been executed by the US government than killed by terrorists (though, nearly certainly all of the people executed deserved it). I say all these statistics to point out that the threat from Islamic Terrorists is not such that it should be anywhere near the top of our priority list.

On average, less than 4 Americans are killed each year by Muslim terrorists. More people die from accidents with mules, let alone the numbers killed by the terrors of bacon. Yet we are obsessed with the issue like it is an existential threat.

Terrorism is a serious threat, one that we need to address in order to keep that number low. But it has more power if we over react. The odds of destroying America by over reaction to terrorism vastly outweighs the actual threat of the terrorists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WATU2
2) 2012 Benghazi riots/attack/whatever killed 4 Americans in Libya by a mob of angry Libyans (terrorism, not terrorism... lets count it)

Please, tell me you are joking. Angry mob. There was no riot. You must be the last person on the planet to still say that. Even Hillary now says that was what they thought at the time, not that it was true.

On denying what is happening in Germany. The Christian Democrats and their leader Merkel are discussing tighter laws on immigration.
 
1) Sweet Jesus, I'm so not interested in a Benghazi conspiracy theory discussion. A mob of 100-200 angry Libyans set out to look like some sort of protest, but brought with them some serious firepower with the intent of destroying the US Consular building. It sure as hell wasn't some kind of peaceful demonstration. It was an angry mob of Islamic militants. I thought that was widely accepted fact at this point?

2) And I didn't "deny" anything that was happening in Germany. I merely stated facts. There have been dozens of incidents in Germany of "Arab looking men" behaving inappropriately towards women - surrounding them, groping them, and steeling from them in the process. And there have been two rapes reported involving refugees.

I see news reports talking all about the situation, I see right wing papers and hate websites blathering endlessly about it. But when you try to find actual statistics and read the articles, everyone is talking about the same 3 or 4 incidents.

- 1 or 2 (spending on the report) woman raped in Cologne by the 1,000 plus strong army of raping and pillaging Muslims (which did cause proper damage, thefts, and other crimes in what is basically a riot)
- 2 women raped on News Years at an after party (by Muslims residents of Germany)
- In Hamburg "several" women were surrounded, inappropriately touched, and robbed by Arab looking men

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046
http://www.spiegel.de/international...bate-on-immigration-in-germany-a-1071175.html
http://www.zeit.de/index
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/

The three largest newspapers in Germany...actual in Germany, report on what's going on. Where's the hyperbole. Where's the panic?

I'm positive there were others. But when you ignore the inflammatory headlines and try to find actually information on what's going on, it falls apart. Damn facts just keep getting in the way of good ole' fashioned xenophobia. Remember when all crime in the US was the Negros, or financial disaster in Germany was the Jews? Germany's official position, per a study by their Ministry of the Interior, is that added refugees increase the crime in Germany by a proportional amount to their numbers:
http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees-have-not-increased-crime-rate-in-germany/a-18848890

Obviously rape is avery serious crimel. Obviously men intimidating women is unacceptable. But the headlines on right-wing newspapers are simply meant to inflame people and hope they don't actually care about the facts. I have no doubt there are issues that need to be addressed. Certainly many Middle Eastern countries have cultures that are not in line with Western views on women's rights (and a ton of other issues,including the fact that perpetrators of the above mentioned crimes should be thrown the hell out of the country asap). But such inflammatory rhetoric is not encouraging anyone to address real problems, it's just rhetoric to get people all worked up. Heaven forbid facts matter.

Sex Mobs!
Muslims pillaging German.
Europe is under attack as thousands rape across Germany!
Christians not safe as rapist Jihadists take over Germany.
RAPE JIHAD TAKES OVER GERMAN!

Of course, what they meant to "report" was that there have been several serious incidents involving Muslims, including as many as five incidents of rape (two involving refugees). But damn, that isn't nearly as terrifying as JIHAD RAPE GANGS! Go read actual news sources, formulate a fact based opinion. Then discuss what issues there actually are that need to be addressed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eastcane and WATU2
I fully understand that you are not interested in discussing Benghazi.
 
The BBC is reporting that over 1000 Muslim immigrants were involved in attacks of a now confirmed 80 women in Cologne alone on NYE. There were other smaller organized attacks in other European cities. The attacks were coordinated through social media sites and have been growing in the last year in Europe. There are organized protest today in Germany over such attacks.

When have we seen such a large group participate on organized criminal activity?
 
The BBC and the Associated Press are right-wing extremists...you can't trust them. The Benghazi attack was made up by the people who were there and their families.
 
Did I deny there was serious issues going on? No. I even gave the number involved in the mob at 1,000, which you apparently agree with when you fed it back to me like it was somehow new information. Same with stating that there are protests in Germany over the same, which are well covered in the German newspapers I linked to. I'm trying to figure out what facts that I have stated, and cited, you disagree with?

The headlines of the propaganda outlets, to wit: "Rape Jihad", are utter ridiculous. It leads people to say things like:

Are planned and organized rapes of hundreds of women by large groups of immigrants considered terrorism?

Which has no basis in fact. But it sure fits with the sensational headlines! Instead of acknowledging that there is no basis i fact, you just point out facts that I already said embedded in news stories that further contradict your statement. Worldview affirmed!

Is there an issue with not believing the underlying facts? You prefer the sensationalize versions? Pretend I'm an evidence based rational person, and explain to me what I'm missing. I promise I will acquiesce to fact and logic (hence my tenancy to cite sources).
 
  • Like
Reactions: WATU2
1000 Muslim immigrants raping and attacking women in an organized mob needs no sensationalizing....it's pretty damn sensational on its on terms.

Islamic majority countries are currently the most oppressive and intolerant countries toward minority and women's rights in the world. Yet, Libs go out of their way to defend the religion which their laws are based. Makes absolutely no sense especially considering their long stated issues with Christian influences in the U.S.
 
Last edited:
Today in Turkey a Syrian refugee linked to ISIS bombed a popular tourist area killing are least ten people. Nine were Germans. That may explain why many Germans and Americans are concerned about taking more.
 
Islamic majority countries are currently the most oppressive and intolerant countries toward minority and women's rights in the world. Yet, Libs go out of their way to defend the religion which their laws are based.

Fear mongering and misrepresentation of the facts is what led us into invading Iraq. Avoiding making that mistake again is not a bad idea. The goal of many of the posts on this site seems to be justify fear is not outright hatred of all muslims, Islam, and anyone who had ever lived in the middle east regardless of their citizenship or country of birth, including the US.

It is particularly disappointing to see Presidential candidates soliciting votes by fostering these fears and amping up xenophobia and religious hatred. That will only lead to making that kinds of mistakes that we made in the past and now regret.

Or as Kipling put it...

"
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;

........you'll be a Man, my son.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eastcane
Unreasonable fear is a bad thing . However anyone who is ever been burned by a stove has a reasonable fear of touching something hot . A reasonable and proper fear is a protective instinct . In fact, WATU, your thread about our greatest threats invites the discussion of possible dangers.
 
Last edited:
Do we not considering selling the fear of random acts of violence at home to promote a gun control agenda fear mongering? Even those these acts account for less than 1% of the gun deaths in America the President uses them including their victims as props to push an agenda. Wouldn't this be akin to using the family members of those killed by Muslims here in the U.S. in ads and speech props to advocate stricter immigration standards? I support reasonable gun control but the problems lie in the violence occurring in our inner cities not the isolate acts which are being used to incite fear. All I ask is for an honest debate of the real problem and reasonable solutions.

As far as foreign policy, the problem with doing nothing has manifest itself in the growth of ISIS from a handful of rebels to the multi-million dollar terror network it is today. Fear mongering is wrong on either side of the aisle. However, history shows us that sometimes the reason for the fears are all too real.
 
Just to make sure that I understand your positions, does the following describe your views properly?

Although 30,000+ people a year die every year from gun related gun deaths, it is a dismissable problem and should not be examined.

Climate change is not really happening because the data is either flawed or does not support the consensus view of the scientific community.

ISIS is the foremost existential threat to the US that should be the central focus of our attention.

Islam is the polar opposite of a religion of peace, and constitutes an existential threat.
Allowing even US government screened Syrian refugees into the US is an unacceptable risk.

Muslims born in the US pose an unacceptable threat and cannot be trusted.

Islamic terrorism in the US is more dangerous and unacceptable than other forms of domestic terrorism.
 
I am just as scared of anyone here who wants to dismantle our culture.

they demand that we no longer observe some of our holidays, rename some, and add some of theirs.

they insist that we observe their religious laws even if it conflicts with civil law.

. . .
 
Do we not considering selling the fear of random acts of violence at home to promote a gun control agenda fear mongering?

No, it's identifying a problem for research and sensible controls. Just as we do for automobile fatalities.

as for foreign policy, the problem with doing nothing has manifest itself in the growth of ISIS from a handful of rebels to the multi-million dollar terror network it is today.

"Doing nothing" is factually inaccurate. Real fear mongering was last night on TV during the Republican debate. Even those tough talking candidates made it clear boots on the ground were out of the question and offered zippo other than hand wringing and bluster.
 
Merkel said yesterday that all refugees in Germany are there temporarily and must go home after he war is over. WTH....I guess Germany is going to track them down and deport them once the war ends? Many on this board have used Germany as an example we should follow. Do we follow Germany's lead here too?
 
The WH should acknowledge the criminal activity of the "refugees" as much as they do our own mass killers.
 
Germany tried to sweep their activities under the rug. We see how that is working
 
I have nothing but admiration for Merkel and the Germans for their willingness to step up to the plate. Canadians too. It is a tough, complex, risky situation. Meanwhile the nation that instigated this problem cowers in fear and makes excuses for not taking responsibility for the mess it made.
 
Taking responsibility means leaving Iraq prematurely and then not providing assistance when ISIS was relatively small and Iraq was begging for us to help
 
Taking responsibility means leaving Iraq prematurely and then not providing assistance when ISIS was relatively small and Iraq was begging for us to help
Please, we could have 500,000 soldiers there in Iraq, getting picked off randomly every day, and still never control Iraq. It was a lost cause the day W announced his intentions to attack a country that had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on 9/11, setting up a series of events. and creating ISIS, no question about that at this juncture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WATU2
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT