Shooting at Choctaw football game

[astonmartin708]

I’m all for making everyone safer. I just haven’t heard a viable plan which gets the guns out of the hands of criminals and doesn’t create a new revenue stream for gangs and organized crime. The two guns involved in this shooting were being carried in violation of current laws and appear to have been obtained illegally as well.

Why is the gun problem the only time when many Republicans care that laws are made to be broken?

Drugs? "We have to keep them off the streets! We need to create school organizations to discourage our kids from using them and we need to impose harsh penalties on those found with them!"

Abortions? "We're going to make them so illegal that a woman's only recourse is to flee the country or give herself a life threatening 'procedure', and we're going to impose stiff penalties on those who we find engaging in any activity related to giving or receiving one"

Alcohol? "We're going to impose laws on who, where, and when it can be bought.... We're going to impose restrictions on what strength (caliber) it can be sold at in certain locations and we're going to heavily criminalize what happens if you're caught abusing it in public!"

Guns? " I don't know man.... it seems like we've let the cat out of the bag. Better to just let the local cheerleaders get smoked by some gang banger"

 

[astonmartin708]

We need to create a D.A.R.E. / a M.A.D.D. for gun use. "Not even once"



....BTW I'm being facetious with these comments, but it's to prove a point. There has to be an effective middle ground. We can't regulate guns to the extent we tried with failed prohibition or failed war on drugs. We also can't simply allow unrestricted access or unenforced laws. In some cases, the laws might need to be more harsh both in terms of restriction and punishment.

 

[lawpoke87]

Why is the gun problem the only time when many Republicans care that laws are made to be broken?

Drugs? "We have to keep them off the streets! We need to create school organizations to discourage our kids from using them and we need to impose harsh penalties on those found with them!"

Abortions? "We're going to make them so illegal that a woman's only recourse is to flee the country or give herself a life threatening 'procedure', and we're going to impose stiff penalties on those who we find engaging in any activity related to giving or receiving one"

Alcohol? "We're going to impose laws on who, where, and when it can be bought.... We're going to impose restrictions on what strength (caliber) it can be sold at in certain locations and we're going to heavily criminalize what happens if you're caught abusing it in public!"

Guns? " I don't know man.... it seems like we've let the cat out of the bag. Better to just let the local cheerleaders get smoked by some gang banger"

You completely missed the point as usual instead choosing to go off on some tangent. I asked for viable solutions to the problem of armed criminals. Solutions which don’t provide gangs and organized crime with a new revenue stream. I assume you chose some nonsensical rant rather than respond to the question because you have no response to the question posed ?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Australia had one horrible school shooting and acted to restrict gun ownership and access. No school shootings since. Meanwhile in the US, we are setting records for mass shootings and school shootings have escalated. Yes, the situations are different, at least in population size and existing gun ownership, but the US is making zero progress making people safer as it continues to expand excuses for gun ownership. We all know the definition of insanity is continuing to the the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

If we did the same thing that Australia did, it would go over about the same as prohibition. You know where prohibition went.

As many crazy pro trumpers as there are out there, I wouldn't want to see the violence it would bring about. I have a feeling it could get a little bit like Little Columbia/Mexico. If we were a little afraid of civil war before, I believe the fears would be a lot more serious then.

 

[astonmartin708]

You completely missed the point as usual instead choosing to go off on some tangent. I asked for viable solutions to the problem of armed criminals. Solutions which don’t provide gangs and organized crime with a new revenue stream. I assume you chose some nonsensical rant rather than respond to the question because you have no response to the question posed ?

I'm sorry you're so unwilling to actually comprehend my posts. I got the point of yours... I just think you're not framing the middle ground we need to walk down correctly... and it belies the same argument that conservatives always use when making guns scarcer is suggested.... I'm saying it's ironic that there is such a flip-flop between guns and every other thing conservatives like to regulate (sex, drugs, alcohol.... rock and roll haha)

All of the "vices" that I wrote about were things that we had outright bans on and people still found ways to engage in them, sometimes through those same organized crime outfits or black markets that you are so worried about. So, we relaxed public access to them (many times against adamant disagreement of Conservatives).... but that doesn't mean we simply made them non-enforced or non-discouraged. We opened the tap enough to discourage a black market, but didn't open it so far that we couldn't control the consequences. We discouraged the use of the vices to our youth and imposed new laws against how the vices were able to be used in public as well as added much stiffer penalties on misuse. We limited the available strength of some things to discourage misuse (like drugs or alcohol)

So, when you ask what things can be done whilst not encouraging a black market.... there are a ton of things that we've already done with other vices that we could do to guns as long as we enforced them....

• You can only buy alcohol / cars GUNS Monday - Saturday. Sunday is the Lord's Day!
• You can generally only buy beer GUNS that are under 3.2 percent alcohol 8 rounds of magazine capacity (16 if you live in Texas )
• Only licensed retailers can sell alcohol GUNS to the public. No private commercial sales of alcohol a GUN is allowed.
• No open alcohol GUN containers outside of a registered establishment. Alcohol GUNS should be transported between the store and home in a secured manner. Violations will result in misdemeanors during traffic stops or while walking down the street.
• If you are caught mishandling alcohol A GUN in public you go straight to jail for public intoxication public endangerment
• If you are caught in unlawful possession or unlawfully distributing drugs or alcohol GUNS, you go straight to jail
• Officers can reasonably search your person or your vehicle if they suspect your unlawful possession of drugs GUNS
• We form youth groups that discourage the engaging in Sex Drugs Alcohol GUNS regardless of their lawfulness

In the name of thy conservative holy father, Ronald Regan, we pray. Amen

 

[HuffyCane]

Australia had one horrible school shooting and acted to restrict gun ownership and access. No school shootings since. Meanwhile in the US, we are setting records for mass shootings and school shootings have escalated. Yes, the situations are different, at least in population size and existing gun ownership, but the US is making zero progress making people safer as it continues to expand excuses for gun ownership. We all know the definition of insanity is continuing to the the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

There are more guns in private ownership in Australia now than in 1996 when the Port Arthur reforms were passed. Roughly 25% of Australians reside in a family home where a firearm is present.

The Port Arthur reforms did not do what many Americans think they did. And they prove that firearm violence is not a question simply of access to firearms. There are issues of culture, history, mental health treatment and follow up, lack of access to law enforcement in an emergency, dispersed population into rural areas, and other factors.

 

[lawpoke87]

I'm sorry you're so unwilling to actually comprehend my posts. I got the point of yours... I just think you're not framing the middle ground we need to walk down correctly... and it belies the same argument that conservatives always use when making guns scarcer is suggested.... I'm saying it's ironic that there is such a flip-flop between guns and every other thing conservatives like to regulate (sex, drugs, alcohol.... rock and roll haha)

All of the "vices" that I wrote about were things that we had outright bans on and people still found ways to engage in them, sometimes through those same organized crime outfits or black markets that you are so worried about. So, we relaxed public access to them (many times against adamant disagreement of Conservatives).... but that doesn't mean we simply made them non-enforced or non-discouraged. We opened the tap enough to discourage a black market, but didn't open it so far that we couldn't control the consequences. We discouraged the use of the vices to our youth and imposed new laws against how the vices were able to be used in public as well as added much stiffer penalties on misuse. We limited the available strength of some things to discourage misuse (like drugs or alcohol)

So, when you ask what things can be done whilst not encouraging a black market.... there are a ton of things that we've already done with other vices that we could do to guns as long as we enforced them....

• You can only buy alcohol / cars GUNS Monday - Saturday. Sunday is the Lord's Day!
• You can generally only buy beer GUNS that are under 3.2 percent alcohol 8 rounds of magazine capacity (16 if you live in Texas )
• Only licensed retailers can sell alcohol GUNS to the public. No private commercial sales of alcohol a GUN is allowed.
• No open alcohol GUN containers outside of a registered establishment. Alcohol GUNS should be transported between the store and home in a secured manner. Violations will result in misdemeanors during traffic stops or while walking down the street.
• If you are caught mishandling alcohol A GUN in public you go straight to jail for public intoxication public endangerment
• If you are caught in unlawful possession or unlawfully distributing drugs or alcohol GUNS, you go straight to jail
• Officers can reasonably search your person or your vehicle if they suspect your unlawful possession of drugs GUNS
• We form youth groups that discourage the engaging in Sex Drugs Alcohol GUNS regardless of their lawfulness

In the name of thy conservative holy father, Ronald Regan, we pray. Amen

Not sure how effective any of those will be but they certainly can’t hurt. No issues from me. I do believe you’re missing some critical items. Take the Choctaw shooting. How did two 15 year olds get these guns. We have crickets as to this detail. We need to place more emphasis on punishing those who are illegally dealing guns. Hell….more punishment for those who own guns but don’t exercise due caution with said ownership. Next is a societal issue. Why do two teenagers feel the need to bring guns to a high school football game. Again…crickets from law enforcement and journalist. I assume some of us would be shocked at the number of 15 year olds on parts of OKC or Tulsa who are walking around armed. There are obviously places much worse. Why are we here? Who is dealing these guns? How do we solve the societal and gun access problems ?

 

[astonmartin708]

Not sure how effective any of those will be but they certainly can’t hurt. No issues from me. I do believe you’re missing some critical items. Take the Choctaw shooting. How did two 15 year olds get these guns. We have crickets as to this detail. We need to place more emphasis on punishing those who are illegally dealing guns. Hell….more punishment for those who own guns but don’t exercise due caution with said ownership. Next is a societal issue. Why do two teenagers feel the need to bring guns to a high school football game. Again…crickets from law enforcement and journalist. I assume some of us would be shocked at the number of 15 year olds on parts of OKC or Tulsa who are walking around armed. There are obviously places much worse. Why are we here? Who is dealing these guns? How do we solve the societal and gun access problems ?

Some of my suggestions were facetious because I think the laws they are analog to for drugs or alcohol are ineffective.

Others… like no private sale of guns would be pretty impactful. It would effectively kill traveling gunshows. People would also have a conniption about removing concealed carry which is kind of analogous to open container alcohol laws.

 

[lawpoke87]

Some of my suggestions were facetious because I think the laws they are analog to for drugs or alcohol are ineffective.

Others… like no private sale of guns would be pretty impactful. It would effectively kill traveling gunshows. People would also have a conniption about removing concealed carry which is kind of analogous to open container alcohol laws.

I would like to see reports on how these guns are getting in the hands of criminals….ie…the streets. Are they coming from gun shows? Are they stolen ? Are they being trafficked from Mexico ? Get the info and then work on a solution.

I’ve said many times I’m not a gun guy. In fact I’ve never owned a gun. I don’t particularly like concealed carry. Especially without a license. However, my guess is very few of the people committing murders across the country are concealed carry people.