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USMNT October Qualifiers

I do have hope for the future of the USMNT but not with an American coach. Somewhere on planet earth there's a guy who can evaluate players, develop them & play the best one's available, regardless of "experience" which Arena was so fond of. Speaking of Froggy, he was quoted as saying that all those hot shot teams in Europe would have trouble playing in Concacaf due to travel, playing conditions, "improving" teams, & so forth, & then promptly goes out to lose to the worst of them. Incredible! I'm just sick about this epic fail.

There is a sense that Tab Ramos may be the next guy up. I think this would be a good move. His U20 team performed at a high level at the U20 WC last year and was technically and tactically sound. The got knocked out by a team that had superior talent. It happens.

The other name mentioned was that of the Atlanta United HC, Tata Martino who has coached Argentina and Paraguay to WC appearances, and was the HC at FC Barcelona. I would say he knows what he is doing. Would the US venture down that road of a non-American coach? What Atlanta has done this season, as an expansion club, has been remarkable.

One other thing that needs to change (but likely won't because no one wants to go up against the NFL and NCAA football), is the MLS season needs to align with the rest of the world's top division leagues (EPL, La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga). US' MLS players are at the tail end of a 30+ match league season right now meaning heavy legs and nagging injuries (i.e. Jordan Morris).
 
College soccer doesn’t hold kids back. NCAA rules on practice times, practice days, and who is hired to instruct and coach holds a very finite portion of college kids back. Before, most would leave early. Now, the academies are filtering kids and the ones with legit shots aren’t going to college. They get diverted from the pipeline and into college. This will help.
 
College soccer doesn’t hold kids back. NCAA rules on practice times, practice days, and who is hired to instruct and coach holds a very finite portion of college kids back. Before, most would leave early. Now, the academies are filtering kids and the ones with legit shots aren’t going to college. They get diverted from the pipeline and into college. This will help.
Yes, but as I mentioned earlier, the top level MLS academies are a relatively new thing where they've existed in Europe for decades. Heck, some of the top level Euro clubs are establishing academy and youth development programs here in the states. Liverpool has put their stamp on a few youth programs in the US.

FC Dallas is the closest thing going to that Euro model right now but I expect many if not all of the MLS clubs will have something along that model shortly (if they don't already)...but again, they are still relatively young compared to what the rest of the world has had in place.
 
I could see Seattle becoming a bastion for quality soccer youth. Orlando and LA as well.
 
They already are. Its why there are MLS teams there. There is a method to the madness, or at least there used to be. LA obviously. Seattle dating back to the1970s. Orlando area back to the 80s. Michelle Akers, Zach Thornton, Eddie Johnson, Jozy Altidore, Graham Zusi, I could go on and on.
 
I could see Seattle becoming a bastion for quality soccer youth. Orlando and LA as well.
Seattle maybe, LA is basketball and football and Orlando is a football hotbed.

Youth soccer and development really has been a mid-America type of thing. Dallas, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Memphis have HUGE soccer bases. In order for the US to get into the top 10 in the world, it needs to be all over and there needs to be a clear technical development plan from US Soccer that needs to be followed at every level. Again, I've coached rec soccer and am licensed to coach U9-U12. And the US may wait too long to recognize the talent in these kids and get them into the development academy programs. You hear about kids in Europe, 12,13, 14 years old signing academy deals. Some pan out, some don't. In the US we have Freddy Adu...where is he right now? If there were any MLS academies at that time, they weren't properly run or directed because he wouldn't be the flop he ended up being if they had developed him further rather than rushing him onto a pro pitch at age 16.
 
They already are. Its why there are MLS teams there. There is a method to the madness, or at least there used to be. LA obviously. Seattle dating back to the1970s. Orlando area back to the 80s. Michelle Akers, Zach Thornton, Eddie Johnson, Jozy Altidore, Graham Zusi, I could go on and on.
See above...you're not getting the best athletes in Orlando or LA onto soccer pitches. You are getting some players but not nearly the same numbers you get from those areas in basketball and football. That may change soon because of the concussion issues football is having, but we will have to see. LA does have one of the better development academies but most pale to FA Dallas'.
 
They already are. Its why there are MLS teams there. There is a method to the madness, or at least there used to be. LA obviously. Seattle dating back to the1970s. Orlando area back to the 80s. Michelle Akers, Zach Thornton, Eddie Johnson, Jozy Altidore, Graham Zusi, I could go on and on.
I just meant as far as youth academies go. Seems like St. Louis (having produced Seargent) is getting better at youth development too. St. Louis seems like a no brainer as far as MLS expansion and a base for a youth academy go. They would only have to compete with the Cards and Blues for support as opposed to some of these other cities. Plus they have large urban and suburban populations from which to draw the "high class" kids with good parents to help them along, and the "low class" kids that you see succeed in countries throughout South America where soccer is a lifestyle rather than an after school activity.
 
St Louis has been bed rock for soccer youth development since before the NASL days. I got my first cap as a fan there in the 80s in a high school stadium. Drove back to TU that night all night long in the rain. They have always been at the top of MLS expansion but public funding for a stadium has been voted down several times. No private group has put forth a realistic and profitable plan to build a stadium without public funds and MLS won’t approve a TV market that size without a soccer specific facility. So it’s gridlock.
 
Do we think we'll ever see a moratorium on foreign clubs hosting camps in the US? I've read that it's been a big problem with the Mexican clubs which end up drawing US natives to Mexico via the citizenship rules.
 
Pay-for-play always held me back in the late 80s. Instead, I went and got high in the parking lot at 65th & Mingo, then went inside and single-handedly shut out NSU when I was still a senior in high school. Boooooooooooo pay-for-play. Yay weed!
 
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Do we think we'll ever see a moratorium on foreign clubs hosting camps in the US? I've read that it's been a big problem with the Mexican clubs which end up drawing US natives to Mexico via the citizenship rules.
The problem is FIFA’s rule on citizenship. The US has benefited from the rule on a bunch of players born to and American service member who’s spouse is from the country they were stationed in. Germany has been nice to us. The problem for the US is a lot of the kids from California, Texas, and even here in Oklahoma who have Mexican heritage in their blood want to play for El Tri versus the country they call home.

I don’t see a problem with foreign clubs holding ID camps in the US. If they find a kid and bring them to Spain or Italy or anywhere else and they develop them then so be it. They’re still an American. But the Mexico deal where they come and cherry-pick kids with Mexican background can be an issue for the US.
 
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Frog face out! Resigned to "spend more time with my family". Yeah right. Now, if something called Sunil the Gulati, resigns or chooses not to run for head of the USSF next month, we can start to rebuild the USMNT for future competitions.

I like Bla's idea of (nice) Tatas Martino as our new coach, although if Atlanta wins a MLS championship, it might be hard to get him. I don't like the idea of Tab Ramos-he's part of the current power structure-although he does a fine job with the under-20's as well as Hackworth with the U-17's. Let's get a new coach hired although I hope it's not Sunil the Gulati that does it since his last 3 coaches(Arena twice & Klinsman) have been clinkers.
 
Arena 1.0 led to the high point of modern US soccer history. But perhaps the reference is to Bob Bradley.
 
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Eric Wynalda has said he is interested in leading US Soccer Federation. He has laid out his plan to improve and increase the technical proficiency of younger players, the structure of pro soccer in the states, and development of player pools for USMNT. It all sounds great.

The problem in the US is $$$ drives everything vs places like Germany and Spain where World Cup success drives their plan.
 
Watching the U17s annihilate Paraguay right now. Sargent is good. Not quite as good as Pulisic. Tim Weah is fantastic in finishing. Andrew Carleton is the engine of this team though. He is so good in going from defense to offense on counters and sees the field so well. He reminds me of Arriola some because he's pretty small, but he's scrappy and one of those annoyingly pesky players. Akinola, once he realizes he has a ton of help out there and stops trying to win every 1 v 1 battle will be a player that eventually makes a difference though. He has tremendous talent and potential.

For anyone who has followed the U17 and U20 stages for more than the last cycle, how many of these players can we expect to contribute in the next WC qualifying cycle?

Oh, and Tim Durkin in the back is really really solid.
 
Yes, but as I mentioned earlier, the top level MLS academies are a relatively new thing where they've existed in Europe for decades. Heck, some of the top level Euro clubs are establishing academy and youth development programs here in the states. Liverpool has put their stamp on a few youth programs in the US.

FC Dallas is the closest thing going to that Euro model right now but I expect many if not all of the MLS clubs will have something along that model shortly (if they don't already)...but again, they are still relatively young compared to what the rest of the world has had in place.
Why is FC Dallas the closest? They are all basically doing the same thing.
 
The problem in the US is $$$ drives everything vs places like Germany and Spain where World Cup success drives their plan.[/QUOTE]
Do we think we'll ever see a moratorium on foreign clubs hosting camps in the US? I've read that it's been a big problem with the Mexican clubs which end up drawing US natives to Mexico via the citizenship rules.

Who has given up the opportunity to play for the US over mexico related to this? if they make money in mexico, more power to them.
 
Seattle maybe, LA is basketball and football and Orlando is a football hotbed.

Youth soccer and development really has been a mid-America type of thing. Dallas, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Memphis have HUGE soccer bases. In order for the US to get into the top 10 in the world, it needs to be all over and there needs to be a clear technical development plan from US Soccer that needs to be followed at every level. Again, I've coached rec soccer and am licensed to coach U9-U12. And the US may wait too long to recognize the talent in these kids and get them into the development academy programs. You hear about kids in Europe, 12,13, 14 years old signing academy deals. Some pan out, some don't. In the US we have Freddy Adu...where is he right now? If there were any MLS academies at that time, they weren't properly run or directed because he wouldn't be the flop he ended up being if they had developed him further rather than rushing him onto a pro pitch at age 16.
WTF are you talking about? Why do you conclude that? Lots more USMNT members are coming from the coasts. Southern California is easily the most competitive area of the country for soccer. Texas cities, Chicago, Saint Louis have competitive teams. TN is trash. There isn't a single TN male on Memphis. I would put OK 4th - 5th in the southern division for boys after both texas areas, GA and NC or Florida. AR, MS, LA, AL are total :crap:e.
 
I just meant as far as youth academies go. Seems like St. Louis (having produced Seargent) is getting better at youth development too. St. Louis seems like a no brainer as far as MLS expansion and a base for a youth academy go. They would only have to compete with the Cards and Blues for support as opposed to some of these other cities. Plus they have large urban and suburban populations from which to draw the "high class" kids with good parents to help them along, and the "low class" kids that you see succeed in countries throughout South America where soccer is a lifestyle rather than an after school activity.

Brian Mcbride is the best player ever to come out of Saint Louis without a doubt. The jury is still out on sargent. He appears like he can be great but we don't know yet.
 
Seattle maybe, LA is basketball and football and Orlando is a football hotbed.

Youth soccer and development really has been a mid-America type of thing. Dallas, Kansas City, St. Louis, and Memphis have HUGE soccer bases. In order for the US to get into the top 10 in the world, it needs to be all over and there needs to be a clear technical development plan from US Soccer that needs to be followed at every level. Again, I've coached rec soccer and am licensed to coach U9-U12. And the US may wait too long to recognize the talent in these kids and get them into the development academy programs. You hear about kids in Europe, 12,13, 14 years old signing academy deals. Some pan out, some don't. In the US we have Freddy Adu...where is he right now? If there were any MLS academies at that time, they weren't properly run or directed because he wouldn't be the flop he ended up being if they had developed him further rather than rushing him onto a pro pitch at age 16.

I think the Us needs to add more scouts and add some regional training facilities to put that talent together and challenge each other rather than recreate the Bradenton model.
 
Most of the MLS academies have really only been developing (or trying to develop) players for the highest level for about 10 years (there may be some longer, and some less). The youth system is jacked up. Pay for play kills the system for kids who have a natural knack and understanding of the game because of their inherited love of the game, whose parents simply can't afford the high per month fees and travel. If you have a kid who is serious about it, it goes higher as you start with private coaching for improved technical instruction. Camps. Keep adding it on. I know for a fact there are some tremendous players who are stuck in Rec soccer because their parents simply can't afford to move them to a competitive club where they'll get better coaching (usually better than the avg rec team), a more competitive atmosphere to challenge them.

Just read an article called the "5 Pillars" and where US soccer fails in the 5th pillar which is technical instruction. US has superior athletes and kids who develop more athletic skill because they play several different sports that develop different abilities but the technical instruction at the youth level is lacking because coaches for groups as young as U8 are focused on winning.

My son plays for TSC. He is on the 3rd team out of 6 (because he is a GK). His coach, Donovan Ricketts, former Jamaican National, TRFC GK coach, career accomplishments go on for a while), told the parents up front he did not care about results and at this age (U12) the thing he was focused on the most was improved technical ability and beginning to understand the tactical game so that is starts to come naturally.

My son's coach the previous 2 years mentioned something after the loss last night that the US model where a lot of kids have a goal to play in college is what holds the US back. Most national team players in other countries are already in their 1st pro contracts by age 18 or 19 and competing against much higher levels of player with more time dedicated to training and they reach their peak earlier. US players who go the college route end up playing for 4 years but don't get to compete against the best players until age 23-24 and that puts them behind.

There's also the argument to put a relegation model in place for the top 3 divisions of US soccer. The reasoning behind this thinking is that it would push players who might play in college into a pro team if they have the opportunity to help a division 2 team play its way in to a top tier league through results. Again, this is the model used in most places around the world. The US' soccer divisions are driven by $$$. If relegation were real here, the New England Revolution might make more of a push to develop players and bring in better players. Teams like Cincinnati FC would get the bump up to MLS. It would actually raise the level of USL soccer if promotion were an enticement.

There are lots of things that US Soccer needs to fix. Start at the bottom and work your way up. And look at how Germany develops a 10 year plan and sticks to it. (Heck, look at the way Union, BA, and Jenks develop their youth programs to feed players into the HS programs...it's a smaller version). If you get the youth programs developing along the same technical trajectories and teaching the same technical aspects that you want the USMNT and USWNT using, you will see results.

And build around Pulisic. That kid is special. Give him 4-5 years and his name will be on the Ballon d'Or list.
Every sport is pay to play on some level, except for maybe those that are based around high school like basketball and football. It would take more volunteer coaches and leagues structured to make these kids great. I am not saying it can't be done or shouldn't. It will just be hard. I think relegation would add to club development, excitement and possibly less pay to play. High school is total trash for soccer. It will never work. Many, many college coaches never attend high school games given that the talent is so spread out both in age and quality amongst schools. It looks great maybe for Union, BA or Jenks and maybe the edmond like schools but it is still trash overall. It is impossible to evaluate a kid unless the competition is equal in soccer. People have realized this about basketball, which is why AAU is such a big deal now. Football is really more about pure athletism at every position but maybe QB. It is hard to compare germany and the rest of Europe to the US. The US is spread out relative to them. It makes it harder both in $$ and/or time for the best teams to play each other. CO (IE denver) has very good teams but they have to travel at least 7 hours in any direction to play teams from other cities.
 
Watching the U17s annihilate Paraguay right now. Sargent is good. Not quite as good as Pulisic. Tim Weah is fantastic in finishing. Andrew Carleton is the engine of this team though. He is so good in going from defense to offense on counters and sees the field so well. He reminds me of Arriola some because he's pretty small, but he's scrappy and one of those annoyingly pesky players. Akinola, once he realizes he has a ton of help out there and stops trying to win every 1 v 1 battle will be a player that eventually makes a difference though. He has tremendous talent and potential.

For anyone who has followed the U17 and U20 stages for more than the last cycle, how many of these players can we expect to contribute in the next WC qualifying cycle?

Oh, and Tim Durkin in the back is really really solid.
I've followed the kids since the mid90s. Three or four will contribute significantly in the future and usually not the ones you think. It goes up and down. The USA has had the talent and competed deep into the U17 and U20 tourneys for the last 25 years. Amongst the U23s from 2012, the answer is zero, as I recall, in terms of impact players. Only Kellyn Rowe has a cap from that group and that is only because Arena had to be getting some kind of kickback. The 2000 Olympic team was absurd. Tim Howard, Landon Donovan, John OBrien, DeMarcus Beasley, Conor Casey, Ben Olsen, Sasha Victorine I could go on and on. That team was stacked. There were only about three or four guys that gave it up early.

You can't project the senior team later based on youth performance now btw. Mexico has been chasing that fool's gold for decades. Kids get hurt. Kids quit. Kids do drugs. Amongst the names you mentioned, probably two of those three really makes any kind of impact as a pro. Our real talent pool is in the back, btw. Cameron Carter Vickers, Miazga, etc. There's some world class prospects there. Sargent is a good player, but we've had plenty of good goal scorers at the 17 level who have wowed at the Milk Cup then turned out to be nothing. Then you get the Conor Casey's of the world. They go to the Bundesliga. Tear it up for a season or two, then get hurt and that is it. They come home and are bit players in MLS. I've seen it too many times to get excited about Pulisic. Im glad he was able to help us and he is an exciting player, but 4 years is an eternity in pro soccer. There are people that will tell you that Conor Casey was the better prospect out of the 2000 Olympics over Donovan and Beasley. He had ridiculous speed, power, size, leaping ability, and vision. The closest thing we've ever had to a player who could become a true world class Number 9. Two seasons of the Bundesliga and he is sitting at home in a knee brace while Landon Donovan is tearing up South Korea. Now Casey is a punchline to tired MLS jokes. But there was a time when people who knew the USA team and knew the sport were saying much more about him than was ever said about Landon, Christian, Sargent or anyone else out there. That should be instructive for you
 
Our U17 teams have outperformed our national teams for the past 20 or so years. (Which is why I smile when someone tells me how good we're going to be in ten years when these kids are on the national team). I'm not what I would call a soccer guy but isn't this a direct indictment on our development programs, coaching and MLS?
 
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Back in 81 and 82 I played on club teams that finished as US regional semifinalists and finalists in u16 and u19.

There was lots of travel and money involved even back then. There were shenanigans with fake addresses, deposing coaches, etc.

Hypercompetitiveness and $$ among adults in youth sports is nothing new.
 
And let me add Tulsa should have an MLS team. Absolutely. Just need someone with deep pockets to go out on a limb like they did for okc basketball.

But I digress...
 
Our U17 teams have outperformed our national teams for the past 20 or so years. (Which is why I smile when someone tells me how good we're going to be in ten years when these kids are on the national team). I'm not what I would call a soccer guy but isn't this a direct indictment on our development programs, coaching and MLS?
3 or 4 players per youth team making the senior team later is typical. Maybe a little low, but not a sign of failure. What is a sign of failure is the US tendenancy to put kids in the pipe early and play them even if they don’t progress. Brad Davis is a good example of this from the 2000s. Lately Omobi Okugo is a good example. He is a solid role player in MLS, but even casual fans could see when he was 20 that things weren’t going to get better. Still, he stayed in the pipe another 4 years while other players didn’t get a shot.
 
And let me add Tulsa should have an MLS team. Absolutely. Just need someone with deep pockets to go out on a limb like they did for okc basketball.

But I digress...
Don Garber has stated publicly several times that there are several cities with USL teams that would not fit the MLS model and would not be in the runnng for an elevation to MLS, regardless of investment or gate attendance. He listed Tulsa along with Omaha and a couple of others. He left the NFL because they weren’t promoting him fast enough. He desperately wants to be the commissioner of the NFL or position whatever sport he is working for as the successor if and when the NFL falls. That is what makes the rumored move of Columbus to Austin such a weird thing. They aren’t looking at any cities seriously that don’t have at least an NBA franchise and preferably an NFL City with NFL ownership backing the bid (Garber cultivating votes for later if Goddell retires). It would take $100 million in cash to the league to get them to approve Tulsa then another $50 to $80 million to build the stadium and club, then another $10 to $15 to operate it. There’s just no financial benefit to that type of situation. When the Crew went up for sale a few years ago for $40 million excluding the stadium ($65 with) I actually bought lottery tickets with the intention of winning and using the money to move the Crew to Tulsa. Later, Garber made those comments and has made them several times since then. Unless you know someone with $175 to light on fire, it will never happen and all because of the perception that it detracts from the overall perception of the league. People said similar when the Roughnecks started in the 70s. What stinks is that if you look at the numbers, Tulsa ranks amongst the best in the country in watching soccer on tv regardless of the league. At one point the old Dallas Burn drew more viewers in the Tulsa market than Dallas for a few games.
 
And let me add Tulsa should have an MLS team. Absolutely. Just need someone with deep pockets to go out on a limb like they did for okc basketball.

But I digress...
Don Garber has stated publicly several times that there are several cities with USL teams that would not fit the MLS model and would not be in the runnng for an elevation to MLS, regardless of investment or gate attendance. He listed Tulsa along with Omaha and a couple of others. He left the NFL because they weren’t promoting him fast enough. He desperately wants to be the commissioner of the NFL or position whatever sport he is working for as the successor if and when the NFL falls. That is what makes the rumored move of Columbus to Austin such a weird thing. They aren’t looking at any cities seriously that don’t have at least an NBA franchise and preferably an NFL City with NFL ownership backing the bid (Garber cultivating votes for later if Goddell retires). It would take $100 million in cash to the league to get them to approve Tulsa then another $50 to $80 million to build the stadium and club, then another $10 to $15 to operate it. There’s just no financial benefit to that type of situation. When the Crew went up for sale a few years ago for $40 million excluding the stadium ($65 with) I actually bought lottery tickets with the intention of winning and using the money to move the Crew to Tulsa. Later, Garber made those comments and has made them several times since then. Unless you know someone with $175 to light on fire, it will never happen and all because of the perception that it detracts from the overall perception of the league. People said similar when the Roughnecks started in the 70s. What stinks is that if you look at the numbers, Tulsa ranks amongst the best in the country in watching soccer on tv regardless of the league. At one point the old Dallas Burn drew more viewers in the Tulsa market than Dallas for a few games.
It would take George Kaiser money to get in the game and he seems to have cast his lot with the Thunder. Or a group of several mini George Kaisers.

I went to my first USL Roughnecks game last week and it was pretty fun. But if you have a history of sitting in the stands for the NASL Roughnecks it is hard to get very motivated by the USL as an end game. I would rather stay home and watch Netflix. MLS Tulsa or bust, or ignore pro club soccer.
 
Our U17 teams have outperformed our national teams for the past 20 or so years. (Which is why I smile when someone tells me how good we're going to be in ten years when these kids are on the national team). I'm not what I would call a soccer guy but isn't this a direct indictment on our development programs, coaching and MLS?
I am not sure about that question. Thadhu
And let me add Tulsa should have an MLS team. Absolutely. Just need someone with deep pockets to go out on a limb like they did for okc basketball.

But I digress...
You can't even get 1k at a USL event.
 
It would take George Kaiser money to get in the game and he seems to have cast his lot with the Thunder. Or a group of several mini George Kaisers.

I went to my first USL Roughnecks game last week and it was pretty fun. But if you have a history of sitting in the stands for the NASL Roughnecks it is hard to get very motivated by the USL as an end game. I would rather stay home and watch Netflix. MLS Tulsa or bust, or ignore pro club soccer.
For someone that is a supposed fan, that is an incredible statement. Tulsans in a nutshell.
 
Don Garber has stated publicly several times that there are several cities with USL teams that would not fit the MLS model and would not be in the runnng for an elevation to MLS, regardless of investment or gate attendance. He listed Tulsa along with Omaha and a couple of others. He left the NFL because they weren’t promoting him fast enough. He desperately wants to be the commissioner of the NFL or position whatever sport he is working for as the successor if and when the NFL falls. That is what makes the rumored move of Columbus to Austin such a weird thing. They aren’t looking at any cities seriously that don’t have at least an NBA franchise and preferably an NFL City with NFL ownership backing the bid (Garber cultivating votes for later if Goddell retires). It would take $100 million in cash to the league to get them to approve Tulsa then another $50 to $80 million to build the stadium and club, then another $10 to $15 to operate it. There’s just no financial benefit to that type of situation. When the Crew went up for sale a few years ago for $40 million excluding the stadium ($65 with) I actually bought lottery tickets with the intention of winning and using the money to move the Crew to Tulsa. Later, Garber made those comments and has made them several times since then. Unless you know someone with $175 to light on fire, it will never happen and all because of the perception that it detracts from the overall perception of the league. People said similar when the Roughnecks started in the 70s. What stinks is that if you look at the numbers, Tulsa ranks amongst the best in the country in watching soccer on tv regardless of the league. At one point the old Dallas Burn drew more viewers in the Tulsa market than Dallas for a few games.
This is exactly why there needs to be relegation. It would create such a seperation from the other sports monopolies that the other leagues have become. The fact the Bournemouth is the EPL is a prime example of this. I could care less about stadium amenities. I don't understand why people want to go sporting events for "comfort" and to sit on their ass. Build a no-frills stadium with plenty of bathrooms, some big TV screens, and places to buy beer and hotdogs and some maybe Burn Co. Don't tell me you couldn't build something like the Hawthorns at west brom for 40-50M
 
3 or 4 players per youth team making the senior team later is typical. Maybe a little low, but not a sign of failure. What is a sign of failure is the US tendenancy to put kids in the pipe early and play them even if they don’t progress. Brad Davis is a good example of this from the 2000s. Lately Omobi Okugo is a good example. He is a solid role player in MLS, but even casual fans could see when he was 20 that things weren’t going to get better. Still, he stayed in the pipe another 4 years while other players didn’t get a shot.

Thank you for the response. I've wondered why we can be so much more competitive in U17s compared to our national team. Something is obviously occurring either with our programs or the programs in other countries which give them an advantage.
 
This is exactly why there needs to be relegation. It would create such a seperation from the other sports monopolies that the other leagues have become. The fact the Bournemouth is the EPL is a prime example of this. I could care less about stadium amenities. I don't understand why people want to go sporting events for "comfort" and to sit on their ass. Build a no-frills stadium with plenty of bathrooms, some big TV screens, and places to buy beer and hotdogs and some maybe Burn Co. Don't tell me you couldn't build something like the Hawthorns at west brom for 40-50M
The biggest expense after real estate is fitting for television. Sporting's budget on their stadium doubled when they saw what the league and NBC required at the time. Those costs are hidden by promoted teams because the league pays for them as part of the promotion fee. Not so with expansion clubs.
 
Thank you for the response. I've wondered why we can be so much more competitive in U17s compared to our national team. Something is obviously occurring either with our programs or the programs in other countries which give them an advantage.
Two things: the European clubs emphasis touches on the ball. Every player needs an hour on the ball a day, minimum. All clubs, the world over except the USA, emphasize the mental aspect of understanding tactics and touch and how to distribute the ball (or direct it on goal). The people in control of US youth development make money of coaching and tournaments. So we emphasize meaningless drills and practice techniques and play a ridiculous number of games as part of the tourney system when compared to the rest of the world. The result is that kids spend 2 hours on the pitch in the game and some touch the ball maybe 5 times and those are generally either control or outlet passes. We segregated the players with the natural ability to take on defenders one on one and funnel the ball through them, rather than focusing on how each player can develop dribbling, passing, and distribution skill at an early age. Especially the players in the back. It limits our talent pool. Jay DeMerit was a world class defender without a lick of natural ability at the position. He played striker and holding midfield in high school in college because he could dribble because he grew up playing 1 v 1 against his brother every day. He was playing midfield for a pub team in London who had an exhibition against a League Two side in front of like 20 people. He played well and one of the scouts there to look at his teammate asked him to come and train with that League Two side. Once he got a look in England, his League Two coach recognized his defensive mindset from playing high school basketball and big frame and ability to distribute the ball, as well as break down an opponent and thought he would be perfect to bring the ball up from the back. He played one exhibition game for his League Two team against Championship side Watford as a center back (a position he had been playing for only a few weeks) and proved himself steady and really impressed Watford with his leaping ability. They signed him the next day and paid him well despite not having an agent and him telling them he would play for free. At the end of the following season, with Jay as captain, they were elevated to the Premier League. Only after he made it to the EPL did he receive attention from Bob Bradley and get an invite to camp. Why? Because we had people in the pipe like Omar Gonzalez and Onwayfat since U17 days and we were set with "our guys" When he came out of college, four years behind the development arc, if not more, the Chicago Fire gave him a try out and determined that they had faster players in the midfield with more experience and cut him early from his 60 day development contract. 99.9% of our product stops there. College degree. Tryout. Cut. Retire. Jay is one of the few with the guts to search for a trial in Europe 10 years after people his age go through that process. This is why we suck. Not Bruce Arena, though he bears blame.
 
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It would take George Kaiser money to get in the game and he seems to have cast his lot with the Thunder. Or a group of several mini George Kaisers.

I went to my first USL Roughnecks game last week and it was pretty fun. But if you have a history of sitting in the stands for the NASL Roughnecks it is hard to get very motivated by the USL as an end game. I would rather stay home and watch Netflix. MLS Tulsa or bust, or ignore pro club soccer.
For someone that is a supposed fan, that is an incredible statement. Tulsans in a nutshell.
I am indeed a fan of TU football and basketball and of USMNT. That is my full quota of fandom and I am all in for these things. Minor league soccer, baseball, Thunder, any other sport not really. Only so much time available for such diversions. But I would send a check today for my Tulsa MLS seats.
 
I will add one more thing. If there was a real campaign for an MLS team that was associated with th USL Roughnecks and it was part of that longer term objective I would do my part. Someone needs to articulate that objective. Otherwise I am uninterested in permanent minor league sports. Shoot for the stars or don't shoot.
 
Two things: the European clubs emphasis touches on the ball. Every player needs an hour on the ball a day, minimum. All clubs, the world over except the USA, emphasize the mental aspect of understanding tactics and touch and how to distribute the ball (or direct it on goal). The people in control of US youth development make money of coaching and tournaments. So we emphasize meaningless drills and practice techniques and play a ridiculous number of games as part of the tourney system when compared to the rest of the world. The result is that kids spend 2 hours on the pitch in the game and some touch the ball maybe 5 times and those are generally either control or outlet passes. We segregated the players with the natural ability to take on defenders one on one and funnel the ball through them, rather than focusing on how each player can develop dribbling, passing, and distribution skill at an early age. Especially the players in the back. It limits our talent pool. Jay DeMerit was a world class defender without a lick of natural ability at the position. He played striker and holding midfield in high school in college because he could dribble because he grew up playing 1 v 1 against his brother every day. He was playing midfield for a pub team in London who had an exhibition against a League Two side in front of like 20 people. He played well and one of the scouts there to look at his teammate asked him to come and train with that League Two side. Once he got a look in England, his League Two coach recognized his defensive mindset from playing high school basketball and big frame and ability to distribute the ball, as well as break down an opponent and thought he would be perfect to bring the ball up from the back. He played one exhibition game for his League Two team against Championship side Watford as a center back (a position he had been playing for only a few weeks) and proved himself steady and really impressed Watford with his leaping ability. They signed him the next day and paid him well despite not having an agent and him telling them he would play for free. At the end of the following season, with Jay as captain, they were elevated to the Premier League. Only after he made it to the EPL did he receive attention from Bob Bradley and get an invite to camp. Why? Because we had people in the pipe like Omar Gonzalez and Onwayfat since U17 days and we were set with "our guys" When he came out of college, four years behind the development arc, if not more, the Chicago Fire gave him a try out and determined that they had faster players in the midfield with more experience and cut him early from his 60 day development contract. 99.9% of our product stops there. College degree. Tryout. Cut. Retire. Jay is one of the few with the guts to search for a trial in Europe 10 years after people his age go through that process. This is why we suck. Not Bruce Arena, though he bears blame.

I feel like we anoint players and are too stubborn to realize the idiocy of our ways. That has to change. We need more scouts. I read that we are only employing supposedly 9 scouts out there. We need some volunteer guys out there or something. I guarantee people would volunteer for this job. Buy them dinner, beer, gear and pay for their travel. If I never see Omar Gonzalez in a US uniform again, I will not object.
 
How in the world could I have forgotten about the clinker that was Bob Bradley. How long did he last in the EPL? Yes, we need a ton of new scouts to scour this great land of ours. They are out there
Gulati wasn't responsible for Arena 1.0.
 
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