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USMNT October Qualifiers

TU_BLA

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Roster is out...no DeMarcus Beasley but Zusi is still in the team (why God, why?). No Johnson is a good thing IMO. No Jordan Morris which is puzzling. Why would you take Wondolowski instead of Morris?

I’ll be honest, I don’t know what the injury situation is for some players so that may be why. It’s good to see Yedlin back in the mix as well as Bedoya. Not sure why Ream is on he list again as he is one of the primary reasons why we only had a draw vs Honduras.

Howard should be the only GK who sees action this next week.
 
If I recall, Morris has some type of injury.
That sucks. In addition to being a big bruising possession type forward, he's got more speed than Altidore and really puts pressure on the backs. I wonder if Arena will use Dempsey in an attacking MF role along with Pulisic with Wood and Altidore up top. If the US could possess the ball it will put a lot of pressure on Panama and T&T.
 
We're in Trouble with a capital T & that rhymes with D(as in defense). When Bruce"the Toad" Arena calls up the likes of Ream,Gonzalez,Orozco,Villafana, Beasley & Zuzi-we are in deep poo-poo. I'll tell you where F. Johnson is-playing for his club team in Germany. Replaced by none other than Benny"the Jet" Feilhaber-the Toad must be insane!

The Toad's obsessive compulsive disorder to call up MLS has-beens is just unbelievaBULL. And then there's Wondolowski who hasn't scored for the USMNT since Benny & the Jets was a hit tune.

Finally, Arena calls up Acosta & Aguedelo who've done nada,zip,zilch,bupkis,etc.......), Same for Bedoya, Nagbe & Altidore. Dempsey, Howard, Pulisic, Wood, Cameron,Besler, McCarty, Arreiola, Bradley-are they enough to get it done? Better pray!
 
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We're in Trouble with a capital T & that rhymes with D(as in defense). When Bruce"the Toad" Arena calls up the likes of Ream,Gonzalez,Orozco,Villafana, Beasley & Zuzi-we are in deep poo-poo. I'll tell you where F. Johnson is-playing for his club team in Germany. Replaced by none other than Benny"the Jet" Feilhaber-the Toad must be insane!

The Toad's obsessive compulsive disorder to call up MLS has-beens is just unbelievaBULL. And then there's Wondolowski who hasn't scored for the USMNT since Benny & the Jets was a hit tune.

Finally, Arena calls up Acosta & Aguedelo who've done nada,zip,zilch,bupkis,etc.......), Same for Bedoya, Nagbe & Altidore. Dempsey, Howard, Pulisic, Wood, Cameron,Besler, McCarty, Arreiola-are they enough to get it done? Better pray!
Thought Nagbe played great against Mexico and Honduras in the qualifiers. His speed puts a lot of pressure on defenders and his vision has been really good.
 
The Pulisic-Altidore-Wood connection plays like a Crosby-Malkin- name a winger line in the NHL. Panama had no chance tonight with those three playing at a high level. Pulisic puts so much pressure on a back line with his speed and creativity, Wood and Altidore are left wide open frequently. Pulisic is the US’ Messi. Arriola puts another pace guy out there and then there’s Nagbe who was effective.

The 11 that started tonight is probably the best 11 and should be the one lineup going forward as long as everyone is healthy. No need to see anyone else. Yedlin and Villafana have been good as the outside backs (especially Yedlin). No need for any more Zusi time.

1 pt at T&T on Tuesday and the US all but clinches their qualification even if Panama wins. Panama would need a +7 GD in the last match to even get level with the US in that tie break.
 
Yeah, among those selected to camp by Frog Face, this was prolly the best 11, although Cameron should replace Omar or Villafana. Just keep Zuzi, Ream, Feilhaber, Beasley, Wondolowski, Acosta & Aguedelo off the pitch for T&T.
 
1 pt at T&T on Tuesday and the US all but clinches their qualification even if Panama wins. Panama would need a +7 GD in the last match to even get level with the US in that tie break.
Honduras would tie us in points going into the last match, if they hold on to win against Costa Rica.
 
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Thank god Costa Rica gets a goal 5 min into overage time, makes it a little easier.
 
I thought Wood's last goal was awesome. One touch, turn, strike, perfect placement.

If he can keep that up and Pulisic stays healthy and in form we will be dangerous. Defensively though need midfield help. Also Cameron.
 
Tie vs Trinidad and Tobago gets us in without having to play the qualifier. Neither Panama or Honduras are going to win their final game by 6 plus or 8 plus to get by us.

Bedoya instead of Arriola gives us more of a defensive presence in the midfield. What we played the other night was more of a 4-3-3. As long as Altidore knows he needs to come back and play some defense occasionally the US should be OK with that combo up front.
 
Announcers suggested Bedoya did not have the legs anymore to play both ends for 90 minutes.
 
So, I looked for the TV tonight; nothing in the World, found on US Soccer site BeIN. Have no idea if that is one my totally extended Cox package. I hate watching soccer scores on line.
 
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If you speak some Spanish, Directv has it on ch. 410. I'm turning the sound off & just watch.
 
Well, our WC goose is cooked!!! We lose,dos a uno, & Panama & Honduras wins. I'm pretty sure we're screwed for any chance. The whole team looked listless from the get-go. And then there's the absolutely pathetic Omar-&Frog Face's insistence on playing him. Omar attempts to clear a ball about 15 yards out & shanks it high over Howard's head & into our net.

Then a T&T guy hits a beautiful screamer from about 35 yds out & beats Howard. 2-0 T&T. The only US player that played worth a damn was, you guessed it, young Pulisic. Scores at start of 2nd half, but that's it. Frog Face has got to go!!!!!!! This dude doesn't have a clue on personnel. Now we've got 5 years to find a team & a new coach. What a kick in the A$$!!
 
I’ve never missed a televised game since 1987.

The most lethargic performance I’ve ever seen the team play. If the two goals were not so absurd, I would say this game was fixed.
 
What a suckable performance. Complete lethargy from everyone except Dempsey down the stretch. Felt bad for him.

Need to start from scratch except Pulisic in next cycle.

Lots of blame here. Arena, Klinsy, USA Soccer, players. If you cannot get 1 point against the worst team in the group you deserve to stay home.

So much for futball AND football for the foreseeable future.
 
Is it coincidence that the only guy worth a damn plays in Europe? First time we’ve missed the WC in more than 30 years. What or whose to blame? Coaching, roster full of MLS players, US soccer in general???
 
Tough fall. Of my 4 sports interests, three are proven failures. TU football, USMNT, and Charles Clay (due to injury).

All I have left is TU basketball. Hope they come through or I will need a new hobby at least until next fall.
 
The word from T&T is that Gulati left early. Not sure what that is about.

The problem is more than you see that’s flawed. It’s what you don’t see. There is an entire generation of young players that were ignored during the last half of the Arena 1.0.

None of those guys panned out and we miss two Olympics in a row. Players that should have been playing and winning and pushing the likes Dempsey and Bradley have been busts. Omobi Okugo, CJ Sapong, Brek Shea, Josh Gatt, Joe Gyau. All of these guys got hurt, got drunk, got busted or were just a plain bust.

All of them are missing and not pushing the aging players out and all of them took up limited development spots so we have fewer options. We are left with aging Howard, Dempsey, and Bradley for one round more than we would normally see them.

Did Dempsey hustle? Yes. Can he do that for 90? No. Does he take up a spot from someone who could go 90. Not really because of the missing generation.

We saw some bad soccer tonight. But it’s what we didn’t see that is the problem.

Gulati and Arena are both to blame for that — Then and now, but they aren’t the only ones. There are dozens of influential “soccercrats” and self appointed youth coach leaders that bear a lion’s share of the blame for an effed up system and by extension, this result.
 
Where did or are these young men playing? Are the US academies as big of failures as I’m hearing tonight from the talking heads? Has there been a movement away from Europe ?
 
All these things are true but at the end of the day we only needed 1 point against the worst team in the group to qualify.

With all that it was a truly uninspired performance. Epic fail really.
 
Where did or are these young men playing? Are the US academies as big of failures as I’m hearing tonight from the talking heads? Has there been a movement away from Europe ?
We have good players and the academy system for the next generations promises to be some of the best on the planet. The problem is that from 1988-2002, we had a core group of paid professionals whose sole job it was to play for the national team and then dabble in club soccer during down time. Kinda like the women still today. After the success of 2002, the thought was that MLS would be the training ground, but the league nearly folded between 2002-2008. This was the crucial time period of development for the players that should be in their prime for this cycle and we missed it. At that time, but it’s definitely not the case anymore, the big international club weren’t really looking at the USA for raw talent. They would come to Dallas Cup, Milk Cup, etc., but it wasn’t serious. Now virtually every club you can name has a US affiliate or outright presence in the USA. Barcelona has operational offices just off Times Square and an academy facility in New Jersey, as well as relationships in every state.

Another problem is coaching at the youth level. We have a system that either: ignores coaching basics for volunteers or is dominated by overcompensated ego maniacs who set the youth training and competition system up to benefit them and their friends and not developing players. Playing too many games, not enough touches for players, poor fundamentals compounded by meaningless drills. I could go on.

So we have the raw talent, it’s just not being nurtured properly. Once a generation an absurd natural talent like Donovan or Pulisic comes along and isn’t polluted because his parents know the game and protect him. But more often than not, it’s the rare player that over comes the obstacles to development and is able to advance their game through sheer will. (Dempsey, Cobi Jones, Eddie Johnson).

Luckily, with the growth of the academy system, that is changing.

Another elephant that nobody wants to talk about is the same problem the women are starting to experience. From 1988 to 2005, we could depend on our superior conditioning and athleticism to over come issues of poor overall speed and deficient tactics. In the last ten years, the other countries have adopted US sports science programs and now are in better shape than us.

As for where is that generation now, most are bit players on MLS clubs after having failed or worn out their welcome in lower tiered Europe sides.
 
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We have good players and the academy system for the next generations promises to be some of the best on the planet. The problem is that from 1988-2002, we had a core group of paid professionals whose sole job it was to play for the national team and then dabble in club soccer during down time. Kinda like the women still today. After the success of 2002, the thought was that MLS would be the training ground, but the league nearly folded between 2002-2008. This was the crucial time period of development for the players that should be in their prime for this cycle and we missed it. At that time, but it’s definitely not the case anymore, the big international club weren’t really looking at the USA for raw talent. They would come to Dallas Cup, Milk Cup, etc., but it wasn’t serious. Now virtually every club you can name has a US affiliate or outright presence in the USA. Barcelona has operational offices just off Times Square and an academy facility in New Jersey, as well as relationships in every state.

Another problem is coaching at the youth level. We have a system that either: ignores coaching basics for volunteers or is dominated by overcompensated ego maniacs who set the youth training and competition system up to benefit them and their friends and not developing players. Playing too many games, not enough touches for players, poor fundamentals compounded by meaningless drills. I could go on.

So we have the raw talent, it’s just not being nurtured properly. Once a generation an absurd natural talent like Donovan or Pulisic comes along and isn’t polluted because his parents know the game and protect him. But more often than not, it’s the rare player that over comes the obstacles to development and is able to advance their game through sheer will. (Dempsey, Cobi Jones, Eddie Johnson).

Luckily, with the growth of the academy system, that is changing.

Another elephant that nobody wants to talk about is the same problem the women are starting to experience. From 1988 to 2005, we could depend on our superior conditioning and athleticism to over come issues of poor overall speed and deficient tactics. In the last ten years, the other countries have adopted US sports science programs and now are in better shape than us.
Do you think there are parents out there who are trying to mold their practices around the example set by Pulisic's parents?
 
Where did or are these young men playing? Are the US academies as big of failures as I’m hearing tonight from the talking heads? Has there been a movement away from Europe ?
We have good players and the academy system for the next generations promises to be some of the best on the planet. The problem is that from 1988-2002, we had a core group of paid professionals whose sole job it was to play for the national team and then dabble in club soccer during down time. Kinda like the women still today. After the success of 2002, the thought was that MLS would be the training ground, but the league nearly folded between 2002-2008. This was the crucial time period of development for the players that should be in their prime for this cycle and we missed it. At that time, but it’s definitely not the case anymore, the big international club weren’t really looking at the USA for raw talent. They would come to Dallas Cup, Milk Cup, etc., but it wasn’t serious. Now virtually every club you can name has a US affiliate or outright presence in the USA. Barcelona has operational offices just off Times Square and an academy facility in New Jersey, as well as relationships in every state.

Another problem is coaching at the youth level. We have a system that either: ignores coaching basics for volunteers or is dominated by overcompensated ego maniacs who set the youth training and competition system up to benefit them and their friends and not developing players. Playing too many games, not enough touches for players, poor fundamentals compounded by meaningless drills. I could go on.

So we have the raw talent, it’s just not being nurtured properly. Once a generation an absurd natural talent like Donovan or Pulisic comes along and isn’t polluted because his parents know the game and protect him. But more often than not, it’s the rare player that over comes the obstacles to development and is able to advance their game through sheer will. (Dempsey, Cobi Jones, Eddie Johnson).

Luckily, with the growth of the academy system, that is changing.

Another elephant that nobody wants to talk about is the same problem the women are starting to experience. From 1988 to 2005, we could depend on our superior conditioning and athleticism to over come issues of poor overall speed and deficient tactics. In the last ten years, the other countries have adopted US sports science programs and now are in better shape than us.

As for where is that generation now, most are bit players on MLS clubs after having failed or worn out their welcome in lower tiered Europe sides.
Very thoughtful analysis. But right now it stings and Arena's post game complaints about a soggy field just make it worse. Some heads need to roll.
 
The whole thing is effed. Why is this game on some channel that no one gets? I could watch under 17 soccer on Cox in Tulsa, but not the national team. That's allegoric of the confusion surrounding this team.

You don't lose to Trinidad. Time to burn the thing down and totally re-do it. They tried that with Klinsman and it looked like it might work, but then went to this :crap:e. Try again with someone else.
 
Going back to Arena seemed like an afterthought after Klinsman. I had about as much hope with Arena 2.0 as I did with the rehashes of the Bowden family.
 
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Do you think there are parents out there who are trying to mold their practices around the example set by Pulisic's parents?
No. The kid is just an absurd natural talent. Marcus Dupree. Adrian Peterson. Jim Brown. It was clear he was special by age 8 and US Soccer had scouted him by age 11. His dad played college soccer and coached in the low division pros. He grew up in a locker room with established pros from Brazil, etc. teaching him fundamentals. More importantly, he touched the ball everyday. This is indispensable. There was a ball in every room in my house growing up. Several in the backyard. I would naturally touch 50 to 1000 a day up through 10th grade or so. If I dribbled with my head down around the house, I heard about it. He wasn’t wasted playing in some far flung tournament every month just so some closet pedophile can call himself a coach like me and tens of thousands of other kids who might, just might, have been able to do something with hope and a chance.
 
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And I hate to say it, but one of the most annoying parts of tonight was all the TU soccer tweets. Love you guys, but we need to watch the big boys tonight. I don't know what you do about it, but it felt like salt on the wound.
 
Going back to Arena seemed like an afterthought after Klinsman. I had about as much hope with Klinsman 2.0 as I did with the rehashes of the Bowden family.
Good call. It was a money issue. They had to pay out Klinsmann and they have to pay the women substantially more going forward. He was the best option for the price. Methinks that short sightedness is going to cost Gulati his job.
 
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And I hate to say it, but one of the most annoying parts of tonight was all the TU soccer tweets. Love you guys, but we need to watch the big boys tonight. I don't know what you do about it, but it felt like salt on the wound.
The whole thing is effed. Why is this game on some channel that no one gets? I could watch under 17 soccer on Cox in Tulsa, but not the national team. That's allegoric of the confusion surrounding this team.

You don't lose to Trinidad. Time to burn the thing down and totally re-do it. They tried that with Klinsman and it looked like it might work, but then went to this :crap:e. Try again with someone else.
Each country holds the rights to broadcast their home games and keep the money. That way we don’t have to share an equal portion of TV revenue with St. Kitts and Nevis. Several of the larger concacaf countries, Trinidad Costa Rica and others bound together to maximize their negotiating position, but there weren’t any takers. A holding company bought the rights for a song and sold them to the highest bidder. In this case, the Qatari controlled bein Sports channel. Bribes for votes for the Qatar World Cup bud we’re probably involved but nobody can prove it. They can prove that smaller cash payments were made to low level reps from each of those countries in exchange for their vote for FIFA president.
 
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And I hate to say it, but one of the most annoying parts of tonight was all the TU soccer tweets. Love you guys, but we need to watch the big boys tonight. I don't know what you do about it, but it felt like salt on the wound.
Amen.
 
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Good call. It was a money issue. They had to pay out Klinsmann and they have to pay the women substantially more going forward. He was the best option for the price. Methinks that short sightedness is going to cost Gulati his job.
I meant to say Arena 2.0, but I think you figured that out from you not mentioning it.
 
On that phantom Panamanian goal, a little part of me wonders if that's someone sticking it to us for the corruption investigation. Just a thought.

I'm obviously blinded my allegiance to my teams, but I've always felt we get jobbed really bad in this format.
 
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Last time around, we scored a meaningless goal after we had already qualified to knock Panama out of the World Cup. In some parts of Latin soccer culture, and parts of Europe, that’s considered the height of poor form.
There are people involved throughout CONCACAF that will never forget it and give Panama a pass.

While everything with CONCACAF is corrupt, I honestly think the prevailing world view that we knowingly benefitted and participated in a world wide bribery scheme for 20+ years then used our secret police to put people in prison when we didn’t get our World Cup bid had little to do with that “goal”. It was either a legit mistake or simple payback.
 
Cox Tulsa does include BeIn Sports but it is in an extended tier beyond the sports pack.

If I had not forgotten about the qualifiers until half, I would have called Cox to add the channel for one day, and then cancelled today. That usually costs about 50 cents and you can do it as often as you want.

Anyway it is a moot point now. I just mention it as a tip for fellow posters who want to watch a particular channel for a big game.
 
I've been watching the "unders" lately(under 17 WC-going on now, watch it!; under 20 WC) and frankly, there looks to be some real stars in the making, at all positions. Not Pulisic great-but infinitly better than the pathetic puppies that Frog Face called up. You just hope that as these kids develop, they get a chance to play somewhere in Europe or So. America.

I hope that by Gulati leaving the game early, it was to compose his letter of resignation. & Frog Face-why does that guy have a job this morning? The only consolation about not making the WC is that I won't be driven bat-sh!t crazy by watching the likes of Zuzi, Omar, Ream, Villafana, Nagbe, Acosta, Altidore(his body language/attitude from the start of the game was pathetic),Beasley, Feilhaber, etc. etc. lose in the group stage in Russia.

I do have hope for the future of the USMNT but not with an American coach. Somewhere on planet earth there's a guy who can evaluate players, develop them & play the best one's available, regardless of "experience" which Arena was so fond of. Speaking of Froggy, he was quoted as saying that all those hot shot teams in Europe would have trouble playing in Concacaf due to travel, playing conditions, "improving" teams, & so forth, & then promptly goes out to lose to the worst of them. Incredible! I'm just sick about this epic fail.
 
Where did or are these young men playing? Are the US academies as big of failures as I’m hearing tonight from the talking heads? Has there been a movement away from Europe ?
Most of the MLS academies have really only been developing (or trying to develop) players for the highest level for about 10 years (there may be some longer, and some less). The youth system is jacked up. Pay for play kills the system for kids who have a natural knack and understanding of the game because of their inherited love of the game, whose parents simply can't afford the high per month fees and travel. If you have a kid who is serious about it, it goes higher as you start with private coaching for improved technical instruction. Camps. Keep adding it on. I know for a fact there are some tremendous players who are stuck in Rec soccer because their parents simply can't afford to move them to a competitive club where they'll get better coaching (usually better than the avg rec team), a more competitive atmosphere to challenge them.

Just read an article called the "5 Pillars" and where US soccer fails in the 5th pillar which is technical instruction. US has superior athletes and kids who develop more athletic skill because they play several different sports that develop different abilities but the technical instruction at the youth level is lacking because coaches for groups as young as U8 are focused on winning.

My son plays for TSC. He is on the 3rd team out of 6 (because he is a GK). His coach, Donovan Ricketts, former Jamaican National, TRFC GK coach, career accomplishments go on for a while), told the parents up front he did not care about results and at this age (U12) the thing he was focused on the most was improved technical ability and beginning to understand the tactical game so that is starts to come naturally.

My son's coach the previous 2 years mentioned something after the loss last night that the US model where a lot of kids have a goal to play in college is what holds the US back. Most national team players in other countries are already in their 1st pro contracts by age 18 or 19 and competing against much higher levels of player with more time dedicated to training and they reach their peak earlier. US players who go the college route end up playing for 4 years but don't get to compete against the best players until age 23-24 and that puts them behind.

There's also the argument to put a relegation model in place for the top 3 divisions of US soccer. The reasoning behind this thinking is that it would push players who might play in college into a pro team if they have the opportunity to help a division 2 team play its way in to a top tier league through results. Again, this is the model used in most places around the world. The US' soccer divisions are driven by $$$. If relegation were real here, the New England Revolution might make more of a push to develop players and bring in better players. Teams like Cincinnati FC would get the bump up to MLS. It would actually raise the level of USL soccer if promotion were an enticement.

There are lots of things that US Soccer needs to fix. Start at the bottom and work your way up. And look at how Germany develops a 10 year plan and sticks to it. (Heck, look at the way Union, BA, and Jenks develop their youth programs to feed players into the HS programs...it's a smaller version). If you get the youth programs developing along the same technical trajectories and teaching the same technical aspects that you want the USMNT and USWNT using, you will see results.

And build around Pulisic. That kid is special. Give him 4-5 years and his name will be on the Ballon d'Or list.
 
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