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šŸˆ News/Notes TU responds after review of bowl game altercation

To be fair, I think his issue is more with the perceived lack of discipline within the program as evidenced by the penalties and trash talking over the last few years that culminated into a fight at the bowl game.

That's what I'm reading in his posts.
I agree, I'm not a fan of unsportsmanlike penalties and Im not suggesting fighting, I'm just saying it's not as serious as they're trying to make it out. I think its pathetic that your first thought is to just stop supporting your university. Its childish. Theres a difference between not supporting a coach and not supporting your university. Nobody wants Monty here. Starting to stop supporting the university does nothing
 
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Iā€™m not sure how I missed this gem. Iā€™ve never counted ā€˜likesā€™ before, but my math has me leading 13-4 in this thread alone.
Leave to f'ever to quote the number of likes when he trails.

There is one or two likes there, that were probably placed there on the principle of his first general statement.

That general statement has been so far deviated from in comments after that. I imagine one or two of those likes would not be given if viewing in retrospect.
 
As someone who sat in the rain for the whole game (after driving 2+ hrs in the rain ) and watched the ensuing melee from above the TU tunnel with his college athlete son, I have say I am pretty lukewarm on the schools statements and response.

My son was embarrassed. He plays baseball for a D2 school. His coach talked about this incident to his team when they got back on campus. He explained to the team that if you throw any punch, that there will no longer be a place in the locker room (or on campus) for them and they can just mail their crap back to the school. The coach knew NJ was a Tulsa fan and even asked him if he was there.

I dont care what MSU does. I only care about Tulsa. There has to be a zero tolerance for this crap.
 
As someone who sat in the rain for the whole game (after driving 2+ hrs in the rain ) and watched the ensuing melee from above the TU tunnel with his college athlete son, I have say I am pretty lukewarm on the schools statements and response.

My son was embarrassed. He plays baseball for a D2 school. His coach talked about this incident to his team when they got back on campus. He explained to the team that if you throw any punch, that there will no longer be a place in the locker room (or on campus) for them and they can just mail their crap back to the school. The coach knew NJ was a Tulsa fan and even asked him if he was there.

I dont care what MSU does. I only care about Tulsa. There has to be a zero tolerance for this crap.
I'm going to disagree with ZERO tolerance on this. I disagree with ZERO tolerance policies on most things. ZERO tolerance policies are what gets a 6 year old expelled or suspended for bringing a plastic butter knife to school to spread peanut butter on bread. I would be OK for harsher punishments if any TU player were deemed to be an instigator in this melee. I'm not sure there is any evidence of that, even the player who had removed his helmet and went back to grab it understanding Miss St. was jawing enough to know what was about to happen. (Think the scene in Tombstone when the one Clanton's expression went from apprehension to 'You offended me and now I'm drawing my pistol'). None of us likes what happened because it is certainly a black eye from a PR standpoint after all the good publicity the football team got all season. And yes, on field discipline during games has been an issue...too much jawing and out of control play. But I'm never blaming a kid who defends himself or his teammates when attacked.

Every angle I have seen has some of our assistant coaches and staff members in between the players and one MSU player in street clothes (so not really a player) took the first swipe/punch.

ADD: I'm OK with the punishments as handed down (although not disclosed fully) and there's probably a "If you're involved in anything like this again, you're gone" in place as well.
 
I'm going to disagree with ZERO tolerance on this. I disagree with ZERO tolerance policies on most things. ZERO tolerance policies are what gets a 6 year old expelled or suspended for bringing a plastic butter knife to school to spread peanut butter on bread. I would be OK for harsher punishments if any TU player were deemed to be an instigator in this melee. I'm not sure there is any evidence of that, even the player who had removed his helmet and went back to grab it understanding Miss St. was jawing enough to know what was about to happen. (Think the scene in Tombstone when the one Clanton's expression went from apprehension to 'You offended me and now I'm drawing my pistol'). None of us likes what happened because it is certainly a black eye from a PR standpoint after all the good publicity the football team got all season. And yes, on field discipline during games has been an issue...too much jawing and out of control play. But I'm never blaming a kid who defends himself or his teammates when attacked.

Every angle I have seen has some of our assistant coaches and staff members in between the players and one MSU player in street clothes (so not really a player) took the first swipe/punch.

ADD: I'm OK with the punishments as handed down (although not disclosed fully) and there's probably a "If you're involved in anything like this again, you're gone" in place as well.
We agree to disagree.

Paraphrasing Phil Collins.. " i was there and i saw what they did.. i saw it with my own two eyes.."

These are men.. not 6 yr olds.. you fight like this in a city park you go to jail..

This was beyond embarrassing and I was ashamed of my colors for the first time in my 40 yr association with TU.
 
We agree to disagree.

Paraphrasing Phil Collins.. " i was there and i saw what they did.. i saw it with my own two eyes.."

These are men.. not 6 yr olds.. you fight like this in a city park you go to jail..

This was beyond embarrassing and I was ashamed of my colors for the first time in my 40 yr association with TU.

It was embarrassing and made us look like a bunch of sore losers. No matter who instigated it, human nature is going to always lay the blame on the losing squad when something like this happens.
 
We agree to disagree.

Paraphrasing Phil Collins.. " i was there and i saw what they did.. i saw it with my own two eyes.."

These are men.. not 6 yr olds.. you fight like this in a city park you go to jail..

This was beyond embarrassing and I was ashamed of my colors for the first time in my 40 yr association with TU.
But it wasn't a city park, it was a football field, where two teams were asked to play with uber high emotion and aggressiveness for 3.5 hours. You think that endorphin and adrenaline rush just instantly wears off.

I'm not excusing the fight, I'm not even giving them a pass on it...but having been in the position to adjudicate college level incidents and determine appropriate levels of sanctions (I did it for 8 years), there is certainly a balance to find between setting an example as well as being developmental. This isn't just about football for these players (at least it shouldn't be). And I do agree, Monty has to demand more physical and emotional discipline from his players...I think we all agree on that. But kicking someone off the team and out of school does not fit with the university's discipline model and athletes should not be treated any differently than a regular student (in fact this is part of the NCAA model as well).

I will say this...there is not a perfect answer here, nor a perfect level of sanction. Some will say the punishments are too harsh, and some will say they are too lenient. Until we start holding the coach responsible at an administrative level, there's no example to hold the student athletes accountable. This might be a good question for Rick Dickson and I suspect that conversation with Monty has already taken place.
 
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But it wasn't a city park, it was a football field, where two teams were asked to play with uber high emotion and aggressiveness for 3.5 hours. You think that endorphin and adrenaline rush just instantly wears off.

I'm not excusing the fight, I'm not even giving them a pass on it...but having been in the position to adjudicate college level incidents and determine appropriate levels of sanctions (I did it for 8 years), there is certainly a balance to find between setting an example as well as being developmental. This isn't just about football for these players (at least it shouldn't be). And I do agree, Monty has to demand more physical and emotional discipline from his players...I think we all agree on that. But kicking someone off the team and out of school does not fit with the university's discipline model and athletes should not be treated any differently than a regular student (in fact this is part of the NCAA model as well).

I will say this...there is not a perfect answer here, nor a perfect level of sanction. Some will say the punishments are too harsh, and some will say they are too lenient. Until we start holding the coach responsible at an administrative level, there's no example to hold the student athletes accountable. This might be a good question for Rick Dickson and I suspect that conversation with Monty has already taken place.
So is what you are saying here yada yada or is what Montgomery saying is about molding young men into leaders yada yada? Cause if itā€™s his self declared job to make this boys into men, heā€™s struggling to demonstrate his aptitude at that too.

Also, donā€™t think for a second that people wouldnā€™t get kicked out of school if during Springfest, 30 Kappa Sigs and 30 Sigma Chiā€™s decided to have a group brawl on Harwell in the middle of a crowd of students next to a bouncey house and all of it was caught on tape and played on a loop by KJRH, Worldstar and Barstool for a week. You have experience with university discipline, and that insight is helpful. But you donā€™t have experience with this unique set of facts and Iā€™m skeptical the same standards would apply to regular students. 8 guys on frat row pretending to fight off camera is/would be handled differently than this incident.
 
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But it wasn't a city park, it was a football field, where two teams were asked to play with uber high emotion and aggressiveness for 3.5 hours. You think that endorphin and adrenaline rush just instantly wears off.

I'm not excusing the fight, I'm not even giving them a pass on it...but having been in the position to adjudicate college level incidents and determine appropriate levels of sanctions (I did it for 8 years), there is certainly a balance to find between setting an example as well as being developmental. This isn't just about football for these players (at least it shouldn't be). And I do agree, Monty has to demand more physical and emotional discipline from his players...I think we all agree on that. But kicking someone off the team and out of school does not fit with the university's discipline model and athletes should not be treated any differently than a regular student (in fact this is part of the NCAA model as well).

I will say this...there is not a perfect answer here, nor a perfect level of sanction. Some will say the punishments are too harsh, and some will say they are too lenient. Until we start holding the coach responsible at an administrative level, there's no example to hold the student athletes accountable. This might be a good question for Rick Dickson and I suspect that conversation with Monty has already taken place.

We agree to disagree. People should be fired and players dismissed.

The thing i kept waiting for during the melee was gunfire.

There were no metal detectors in use.. fans were attempting to get into it...

But, on a serious note..

What merits dismissal? Using the wrong word?

The fact that they have all that adrenaline and testosterone flowing is exactly why this kind of behavior shouldnt be tolerated cannot be tolerated. Someone could have been maimed, crippled, or even killed.

This was no different than a mob.

The University needs to take a firm stand.
 
This is one of those issues you're never going to make everyone happy. And I do respect the difference of opinions> If you get 20 people in a room, you'll probably end up with 15 different opinions on what the appropriate course of action would be and the only one that would be wrong is the one person that thinks nothing should be done (essentially MSU's opinion).
 
This is one of those issues you're never going to make everyone happy. And I do respect the difference of opinions> If you get 20 people in a room, you'll probably end up with 15 different opinions on what the appropriate course of action would be and the only one that would be wrong is the one person that thinks nothing should be done (essentially MSU's opinion).
Sorry. Agree to disagree. The football team exists to bolster public opinion of the university. The fight didnā€™t enhance that. Failure. Secondarily, it exists as an amenity and recruitment tool for the school. What part of that incident helped reassure the parents of 15 year old daughters that their child would make a good decision to come to TU with that behavior being cultivated and tolerated whether provoked or not? Failure.

A lot of times that hippie talk about looking out for the development of the student after they commit misconduct makes some sense, especially when there isnā€™t a victim being hurt. In this case, there was a victim. The University itself. Thereā€™s plenty of culpability in that video beyond the scope of the provocations and we will be better off without those players snd the coaches that reaped and sowed what we saw.
 
If I ever start up a new band, the name will be The Fightin' Caskeys. And each member will be named Billy, William, Bill, and Will.

I think TigerCane bought a t-shirt way back when. T-shirt money always went toward studio time.
 
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If I ever start up a new band, the name will be The Fightin' Caskeys. And each member will be named Billy, William, Bill, and Will.

I think TigerCane bought a t-shirt way back when. T-shirt money always went toward studio time.


I actually have several CD's, some Shame gear (including the limited edition and highly sought after t-shirt in the TU blue & gold) and am patiently awaiting the announcement of the reunion tour or at least the formation of a tribute band.
 
Sorry. Agree to disagree. The football team exists to bolster public opinion of the university. The fight didnā€™t enhance that. Failure. Secondarily, it exists as an amenity and recruitment tool for the school. What part of that incident helped reassure the parents of 15 year old daughters that their child would make a good decision to come to TU with that behavior being cultivated and tolerated whether provoked or not? Failure.

A lot of times that hippie talk about looking out for the development of the student after they commit misconduct makes some sense, especially when there isnā€™t a victim being hurt. In this case, there was a victim. The University itself. Thereā€™s plenty of culpability in that video beyond the scope of the provocations and we will be better off without those players snd the coaches that reaped and sowed what we saw.

More importantly we don't want to continue to let them seed this ground, which is what has been steadily happening since Monty took over.

None of this was an issue in our ten win season with Evans and the rest setting NCAA records. A far superior team to this one in every way. It didn't happen because those upperclassman had a level of respect and discipline that has steadily seeped out of the program. It will only continue to worsen, especially since we have a small group of fans, some of whom may be influential who excuse it.

I will not support a mini north baylor university. This is a continual on going worsening problem, so much that even Monty defenders can't come up with a single reason to support.

Instead they say it's not that bad, claim they don't have an opinion (because ignoring a problem works), call names, or bitch about my television viewing habits. There is zero to support in our coach or coaching staff here. I find it odd that our players can be held responsible but people getting paid to be in control of said players are getting a free pass.

You get what you allow.
 
Iā€™m not sure how I missed this gem. Iā€™ve never counted ā€˜likesā€™ before, but my math has me leading 13-4 in this thread alone.

I didn't realize what you were talking about blue, until it became apparent you must really value gmoney's opinion šŸ¤£

I'm good with that, a guy so obsessed with hating me he tried to talk :crap: because I was discussing women's basketball is your ardent supporter. We're both clearly happy with whose side we are on. Enjoy yours.
 
Christ almighty this guy is obsessing. There was a good reason I didn't care for this guy.
 
At some point, you are personally responsible for your behavior and right now that is legally age 18 in this country (voting age for all and draft age for boys). It was an embarrassment, student athletes should be respectful at all times (remember taking a knee when anyone on either team was hurt?). You do not excuse this behavior, you make them take responsibility and pay a heavy price for assaulting another human being. You give them another chance if they have earned it, but they have to earn it.

I am one to take a hard line on this, especially given the first hand account by people I know and trust, but I admit that this is yesterdays news to everyone but a few of us. I have to rely on those accounts because I didn't watch the game, it wasn't in my top 20 things to care about. It used to be right behind food and shelter, but now I don't even check the box scores or come around here more than a few times a year.

Attendance numbers over the years show I am in the majority, and THAT is the real problem with TU Football...
 
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At some point, you are personally responsible for your behavior and right now that is legally age 18 in this country (voting age for all and draft age for boys). It was an embarrassment, student athletes should be respectful at all times (remember taking a knee when anyone on either team was hurt?). You do not excuse this behavior, you make them take responsibility and pay a heavy price for assaulting another human being. You give them another chance if they have earned it, but they have to earn it.

I am one to take a hard line on this, especially given the first hand account by people I know and trust, but I admit that this is yesterdays news to everyone but a few of us. I have to rely on those accounts because I didn't watch the game, it wasn't in my top 20 things to care about. It used to be right behind food and shelter, but now I don't even check the box scores or come around here more than a few times a year.

Attendance numbers over the years show I am in the majority, and THAT is the real problem with TU Football...
Would have been nice if 3 more US Senators had thought that way.
 
No one cares about this issue anymore. Monty took us to a conference championship game. 4ever likes where our womens BB program is at the moment. That should tell you everything.
 
Would have been nice if 3 more US Senators had thought that way.
The number is 67, they were 10 short not 3. It never ceases to amaze me how little about our government and how it was meant to work people know. Just keep reading Twitter and you'll be fine, until they come for you too :D
 
The number is 67, they were 10 short not 3. It never ceases to amaze me how little about our government and how it was meant to work people know. Just keep reading Twitter and you'll be fine, until they come for you too :D
If you read the crossfire board much, you would know he knows. He just forgot for a minute which kind of super majority it required. Momentary lapse.
 
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