The Rona, public schools, private schools, and Epic

[HuffyCane]

I don’t disagree, but that’s why you need to break the cycle. Allowing every parent of a terribly behaved child to send that kid to a privatized school(via vouchers) just degrades the quality of the private schools and it does it with a middleman profiting from the children. It would be better to focus on improving the socioeconomic status of the poorly performing schools so the kids act better as their parents are able to provide better home-lives.

I’m all for magnate schools for and vouchers for kids who are academically outstanding, but not simply because you don’t like the quality of schools in your area. I would focus on improving the public schools rather than just giving up on them.

How are you going to do that when the best performing students leave Oklahoma and take their lifetime tax revenue with them to raise their kids elsewhere. Over four generations or so, you have a downward spiral.

People ask me all the time why Oklahoma schools are so poor. I say most arent. But they are mostly located in the North Dallas suburbs and outside Houston and Kansas City.

 

[aTUfan]

A lot of people live in consistently poor performing school districts and have very few options where their kids attend school or the quality of that education. Rinse then repeat the cycle.

government run schools

 

[lawpoke87]

I don’t disagree, but that’s why you need to break the cycle. Allowing every parent of a terribly behaved child to send that kid to a privatized school(via vouchers) just degrades the quality of the private schools and it does it with a middleman profiting from the children. It would be better to focus on improving the socioeconomic status of the poorly performing schools so the kids act better as their parents are able to provide better home-lives.

I’m all for magnate schools for and vouchers for kids who are academically outstanding, but not simply because you don’t like the quality of schools in your area. I would focus on improving the public schools rather than just giving up on them.

I don’t disagree. My question is how? TPS has been trying to improve low performing schools for decades. Largely to subpar results. The problem in most of these schools is parent apathy. Most don’t see the value education or have so many real world problems they don’t have the time or energy to make sure little Johnny is doing his homework. Another issue is societal. In many of these schools doing well in class is ridiculed. I like the idea of magnet schools for those kids and parents who do value education. The obvious problem is when you take the parents and kids who do care about education from a particular school what do you have left in the school they left?

 

[noble cane]

LMAO. Well, your experience has been quite a bit different than mine. Literally every single person I ever met that was home schooled for any significant period of time was nowhere near as sociable as anyone I went to public school with. They tended to say odd things at odd moments in conversations which made it hard for them to make friends. That's annecdotal, but I'm sticking to it.

I went to private school in Elementary and at TU. I can tell you that some teachers at these private schools aren't fit to teach. The benefit at TU was that you were able to pick your major and schedule strategically to miss bad teachers and even then I had a couple classes that I had to take with people that shouldn't have been teachers to begin with, even if they DID have PHD's. You don't really have that luxury in private elementary, jh, or high school.

I wouldn't replace public schools with private schools. I would work on improving the quality of the public schools and the quality of the neighborhoods that feed into the schools. Typically, the problem with low income public schools isn't the teachers, it's the socioeconimc background of the kids that your kids are around. That's what you're buying yourself out of when you send your kids to private school.

I assume you got your petrol engineering at TU...

I suppose you thought George King was incompetent and not qualified to teach..

And its pretty easy to be socially awkward around someone thats being a total dick.

 

[astonmartin708]

I assume you got your petrol engineering at TU...

I suppose you thought George King was incompetent and not qualified to teach..

And its pretty easy to be socially awkward around someone thats being a total dick.

King wasn’t there when I was. I can tell you a couple professors that you should avoid like the plague though, except they tended to be let go after their contracts ended.

Best professors tended to be the ones who had taught for a long time and knew how to teach... the ones that had little teaching experience or qualifications were typically crap... much like they would be in a school that didn’t require certification / prior teaching experience.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don’t disagree. My question is how? TPS has been trying to improve low performing schools for decades. Largely to subpar results. The problem in most of these schools is parent apathy. Most don’t see the value education or have so many real world problems they don’t have the time or energy to make sure little Johnny is doing his homework. Another issue is societal. In many of these schools doing well in class is ridiculed. I like the idea of magnet schools for those kids and parents who do value education. The obvious problem is when you take the parents and kids who do care about education from a particular school what do you have left in the school they left?

I think the parents of kids that inhibit learning tend to A) have other priorities, typically monetary or bad habits like drinking, drugs, obesity, etc... and B) they tend to be less educated themselves.
The parents that really care about how their kids are performing in school tend to have kids that do better in school (even poor schools) anyway because they support their kids. It’s the ones that are absent or just poor parents that are the problem. Vouchers and magnate schools won’t help a kid do their homework.

The only way to actually solve the problem is to do it gradually... little by little improving the ability of parents to care for their kids and removing negative distractions like the aforementioned drinking, drugs, and that’s a bigger problem than simply fixing schools. Charter schools for certain kids seems like slapping a bandaid on a gunshot wound to me,

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I think the parents of kids that inhibit learning tend to A) have other priorities, typically monetary or bad habits like drinking, drugs, obesity, etc... and B) they tend to be less educated themselves.
The parents that really care about how their kids are performing in school tend to have kids that do better in school (even poor schools) anyway because they support their kids. It’s the ones that are absent or just poor parents that are the problem. Vouchers and magnate schools won’t help a kid do their homework.

The only way to actually solve the problem is to do it gradually... little by little improving the ability of parents to care for their kids and removing negative distractions like the aforementioned drinking, drugs, and that’s a bigger problem than simply fixing schools. Charter schools for certain kids seems like slapping a bandaid on a gunshot wound to me,

So is slowly solving the problem, which you will never succeed at, and throwing a whole bunch of money at a school.(a bandaid) That school has kids who have disciplinary problems and apathy. That money won't fix those problems by itself. The student body is just as important as the better facilities and better teachers.

I don't have the solution, but either one provided in this debate is a bit of a catch 22. I think the magnate school has more success though. That amount of success is only a small percentage of the students. As of now, no solution comes very close to a majority of students education being improved. But I'd rather take 10% being improved greatly(magnate schools) than 10% being improved marginally. Which is what I think a bunch more money being thrown at the poorly performing school does.

 

[astonmartin708]

So is slowly solving the problem, which you will never succeed at, and throwing a whole bunch of money at a school.(a bandaid) That school has kids who have disciplinary problems and apathy. That money won't fix those problems by itself. The student body is just as important as the better facilities and better teachers.

I don't have the solution, but either one provided in this debate is a bit of a catch 22. I think the magnate school has more success though. That amount of success is only a small percentage of the students. As of now, no solution comes very close to a majority of students education being improved. But I'd rather take 10% being improved greatly(magnate schools) than 10% being improved marginally. Which is what I think a bunch more money being thrown at the poorly performing school does.

I don’t think the 10% that go to magnate schools are improved much over what they already would be. The parents that send these kids to these schools already care about their kid’s education. They would care about it if they went to public school too and that sets kids up for success. Where you need to devote money is to the gifted and to those who are most at risk of falling behind. Improving the top end of education doesn’t do much for the country if, in exchange, you give up on the poor schools and let the bottom fall out of the weighted average of students. You have to improve the average.

What I’m saying is the kids that are sent to magnate schools are also typically the kids that need motivation outside the household the least.

what if we went the other way around and only the impoverished kids that needed the most help got to go to the magnate schools instead of the kids who are going to go to work at their father’s law firm after graduation? I really think we need to look at the developed nations of the rest of the world in terms of how they’re not only educating their children, but also how they’re encouraging families to take better care of their children and provide more discipline and structure in the home (some of that comes with not saddling people who don’t want to be parents , or aren’t prepared to be parents at the moment, with kids because they don’t have access to abortive services imho)

 

[lawpoke87]

Two weeks in and Bixby’s virtual program has been a disaster. My 6th graded actually gets to view a live teacher but can’t print out any course material to review during the lecture. It’s not available. My 5th grader’s experience is even worse. She has no lectures or instruction at all. They put the course material online and she must read it and figure it out herself. Zero teacher explanations or instructions. There’s an “advisor” you can submit questions to but she has been less than helpful. She can print however. It’s a cluster.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Two weeks in and Bixby’s virtual program has been a disaster. My 6th graded actually gets to view a live teacher but can’t print out any course material to review during the lecture. It’s not available. My 5th grader’s experience is even worse. She has no lectures or instruction at all. They put the course material online and she must read it and figure it out herself. Zero teacher explanations or instructions. There’s an “advisor” you can submit questions to but she has been less than helpful. She can print however. It’s a cluster.

So the teacher has to be in the school, but can't find a way to lecture and/or allow student to print out review material. I'd like to know how much of that is technological inadequacy of the school/teacher.

 

[lawpoke87]

So the teacher has to be in the school, but can't find a way to lecture and/or allow student to print out review material. I'd like to know how much of that is technological inadequacy of the school/teacher.

I believe part of the problem is the platform which Bixby is using to conduct virtual school. Oddly enough the 6th grade uses a different platform than 5th grade. My 6th grader actually receives from live time in front of the teacher via an online feed. He just can’t print out any course material due to the platform being used. My 5th graded gets zero video interaction with her teacher(s). She simply receives the course material and is expected to learn it on her own. I’m not sure how Bixby can even consider this instructional. It’s essentially home schooling with the materials being provided and graded by Bixby.

 

[astonmartin708]

Two weeks in and Bixby’s virtual program has been a disaster. My 6th graded actually gets to view a live teacher but can’t print out any course material to review during the lecture. It’s not available. My 5th grader’s experience is even worse. She has no lectures or instruction at all. They put the course material online and she must read it and figure it out herself. Zero teacher explanations or instructions. There’s an “advisor” you can submit questions to but she has been less than helpful. She can print however. It’s a cluster.

I'm sorry to hear that. It's unfortunate. Are you able to devote some time to help them figure things out? (I'm sure you're busy with your business)

I do feel bad for some of the teachers. Many of the older-ish ones aren't tremendously computer literate and their lesson plans that they've developed for years were never meant for distance learning like this.

To give you some hope, the only academic things I remember from 5th grade are related to human cells, some of the thought exercises from the gifted program, some algebra, and that I won the school's reading contest for reading the most books. I don't even remember my teacher's name from that year. Ironically that 5th grade was a really weird year for my generation as well. It was 9/11. Also, my mom and I also got in a big car wreck that year where she was couldn't walk and was in a wheelchair for about a year.

So, my advice in a weird year for your kid in 5th to keep them developing... make them go to the library every few days. Make them learn about biology, and give them some weird thought projects to make them think outside the box... like "you're trapped on a jungley island with nothing but your clothes, and an axe what do you do on your first day? What do you do if, on the island, you come to a river / stream that's too fast and wide to cross but you see some food on the other side?" Oh, and teach them the basics of algebra and solving simple equations if they haven't already begun that.

 

[lawpoke87]

I'm sorry to hear that. It's unfortunate. Are you able to devote some time to help them figure things out? (I'm sure you're busy with your business)

Yeah....they are actually in one of my conference rooms. I'm pretty good with everything except math. They just teach it a different way than I learned it back in the day. Our plan was to send them back in January. However, we've now been informed that the virtual program does not follow the classroom program and they won't be allowed back into the school until next year. Uggg.

 

[astonmartin708]

Yeah....they are actually in one of my conference rooms. I'm pretty good with everything except math. They just teach it a different way than I learned it back in the day. Our plan was to send them back in January. However, we've now been informed that the virtual program does not follow the classroom program and they won't be allowed back into the school until next year. Uggg.

They do that math thing to literally every generation lol. Mine was different than my parents which was different than my grandparents.

Tom Lehrer did a hilarious parody of this in the 60's. He eventually taught Mathematics at Cal Tech or something.

 

[TUMe]

I was ”I was slide rule literate“ and “logarithm” book capable. We did square roots longhand.

 

[astonmartin708]

I was ”I was slide rule literate“ and “logarithm” book capable.

You might as well say you were abacus certified

 

[maverickfp]

I hear ya poke. Its a joke of a solution. Get back in the classroom, have sanitizer, wear a mask and get back to work like the rest of us.

 

[TUMe]

You might as well say you were abacus certified

Yes but I never used a Tally Stick. “Hey, Mr Tally Man, Tally me bananas.”

By TU time it was computers...with punch cards. By retirement more computers than chemists in the lab I ran.

 

[TUMe]

You might as well say you were abacus certified

Yes but I never used a Tally Stick. “Hey, Mr Tally Man, Tally me bananas.”

By TU time it was computers...with punch cards. By retirement more computers than chemists in the lab I ran.

 

[Weatherdemon]

I believe part of the problem is the platform which Bixby is using to conduct virtual school. Oddly enough the 6th grade uses a different platform than 5th grade. My 6th grader actually receives from live time in front of the teacher via an online feed. He just can’t print out any course material due to the platform being used. My 5th graded gets zero video interaction with her teacher(s). She simply receives the course material and is expected to learn it on her own. I’m not sure how Bixby can even consider this instructional. It’s essentially home schooling with the materials being provided and graded by Bixby.

Owasso is using Google Classroom.
According to my JR it's usually 20-25 minutes of live lecture then the remaining time is used for working on assignments and the teacher is available for questions.
He hates it but more of that is him just being stuck at home until football practice but, they are giving out a crap ton of homework in most of his classes.
He said he it feels like they're trying to catch up from the spring. He's good with that as he hated not learning anything new but, it's just a lot of homework.

 

[TU_BLA]

Owasso is using Google Classroom.
According to my JR it's usually 20-25 minutes of live lecture then the remaining time is used for working on assignments and the teacher is available for questions.
He hates it but more of that is him just being stuck at home until football practice but, they are giving out a crap ton of homework in most of his classes.
He said he it feels like they're trying to catch up from the spring. He's good with that as he hated not learning anything new but, it's just a lot of homework.

My son decided he wanted to be back in a physical classroom. We allowed it but I must say we almost changed the decision with the early August uptick in cases. So far things seem OK. He's a smart kid so he understands how it's supposed to work. He did say the mask gets uncomfortable wearing it that long. Hell, he even had to wear it during soccer tryouts this week. He's also getting a crap ton of homework. He's got one teacher who has told the class he doesn't care about extra curriculars and they're no excuse for not finishing HW. I'm fine with that but don't set an unrealistic due time of 8:00pm that evening when you assign the work at 2:00pm. Following day by 8:00am, fine, but to make an assignment due hours after you've given it not knowing what any of these kids are doing seems to be a stretch. This sounds like the type of instructor/professor who wouldn't excuse a TU football player from attending a Friday class even though they're on a road trip.

 

[lawpoke87]

Owasso is using Google Classroom.
According to my JR it's usually 20-25 minutes of live lecture then the remaining time is used for working on assignments and the teacher is available for questions.
He hates it but more of that is him just being stuck at home until football practice but, they are giving out a crap ton of homework in most of his classes.
He said he it feels like they're trying to catch up from the spring. He's good with that as he hated not learning anything new but, it's just a lot of homework.

That's the format I anticipated. Expecting 10 year olds to be able to learn complex subjects like advanced math without any kind of live or even taped instruction/lecture makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[astonmartin708]

That's the format I anticipated. Expecting 10 year olds to be able to learn complex subjects like advanced math without any kind of live or even taped instruction/lecture makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'm kinda dumbounded that it's not what they're currently doing...

 

[lawpoke87]

I'm kinda dumbounded that it's not what they're currently doing...

As am I.