The Rona, public schools, private schools, and Epic

lawpoke87

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Just watched a Bixby School Board meeting. What a cluster. I foresee a large influx of public school students into programs like Epic. Maybe time to start talking about public school funding ?
 

HuffyCane

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Oklahoma, like many states, squandered the summer. Lots of time to prep and Give parents options. States in the hurricane belt have had online course work on lock for years.
 
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Too busy chasing Tesla and holding a failed rally.

Epic is awful.

People will not be able to go back to work.
 

lawpoke87

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As of two days ago Epic’s enrollment was over 40,000 and increasing over 1000 students per day on average. Funding for our public schools are about to take a significant hit due to reductions in enrollment. Disappointed our public schools weren’t better prepared for this fall.

We’re strong supporters of Bixby schools so our kids are using their virtual option. Their classroom option simply makes no sense imo and has little chance of long term success headed into the fall semester. Unfortunately, I believe Bixby is the norm rather than the exception.
 
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astonmartin708

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As of two days ago Epic’s enrollment was over 40,000 and increasing over 1000 students per day on average. Funding for our public schools are about to take a significant hit due to reductions in enrollment. Disappointed our public schools weren’t better prepared for this fall.

We’re strong supporters of Bixby schools so our kids are using their virtual option. Their classroom option simply makes no sense imo and has little chance of long term success headed into the fall semester. Unfortunately, I believe Bixby is the norm rather than the exception.
And Epic is still under investigation for imbezzlement, racketeering, and forgery charges.... Seems like a good place to send your kids. I'm sure they'll feed directly into Oral Roberts at some point. Gotta keep that embezzlement train going! /s
 

Gmoney4WW

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We have a president that doesn't even understand basic statistics. Sad.
Holy crap, I can't believe he let that interview be filmed. That was not a good look for him. Did a third grader do those charts for him? He looked lost in the charts, and not very aware of, or on top of the situation.
 

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Holy crap, I can't believe he let that interview be filmed. That was not a good look for him. Did a third grader do those charts for him? He looked lost in the charts, and not very aware of, or on top of the situation.
Did you need this to know that? It’s really bad.

I have this theory. A lot of the good people who keep our world going work for the government in some form, whether it’s teachers, judges, FBI agents, and so on. The freaking post office is essential to our survival. I don’t think about 90% of what I do would get done without very intelligent and faithful court staff.

All these years of whining about “the gub’mint” and this $hitshow of a presidency have undermined that. We need to have confidence in these institutions.

Epic is a comic failure and not a real alternative to brick and mortar schools. It’s a school for people who hate school. We need to support brick and mortar schools. Pay teachers so they can afford to live. That means we have to fund schools.
 

Gmoney4WW

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I am just re-amazed at how silly he looks, and that he doesn't realize the stupidity he projects, but this was one of his finer moments. As he gets closer to the election, you would think he would place more value in his advisors, but I guess that would mean he ever listened to anybody in the first place.
 

astonmartin708

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I am just re-amazed at how silly he looks, and that he doesn't realize the stupidity he projects, but this was one of his finer moments. As he gets closer to the election, you would think he would place more value in his advisors, but I guess that would mean he ever listened to anybody in the first place.
The problem is, he's not even smart enough to understand what people are explaining to him. I'm not 100% sold Biden will be any better, but it's like trying to explain Excel to an 80 year old who's barely touched a computer.... after a while you just have to accept that they're past the point in their life where they'll be able to do this.

At least Biden tends to stick to the talking points and critical analysis that's being fed to him.... maybe whoever handed these charts to Trump just lacks understanding about the issue and that trickled up? There's someone seriously incompetent in the Whitehouse though, be it Trump himself, or a senior staffer, or both.
 
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Yeah, Trump plays iso ball. He don’t need a team. He’s trying to kill everybody.
 
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astonmartin708

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Yeah, Trump plays iso ball. He don’t need a team. He’s trying to kill everybody.
But he also doesn't put in the work. It would be like watching Kobe try to do Kobe heroics, only this Kobe never stepped foot in the gym and spent all his time golfing and going on talk shows arguing that he should be the MVP even though he's averaging league worsts in points, rebounds, assists, and turnovers all while the Lakers are losing game after game.
 

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But he also doesn't put in the work. It would be like watching Kobe try to do Kobe heroics, only this Kobe never stepped foot in the gym and spent all his time golfing and going on talk shows arguing that he should be the MVP even though he's averaging league worsts in points, rebounds, assists, and turnovers all while the Lakers are losing game after game.
So like Rippin, right?
 

astonmartin708

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Just throwing this out there...we have a lower age limit to run for President. Should we have an upper limit as well?
I'd say the president should have a max age of 70. You can run for two terms if you're 62 (or younger) in your first term, and you can run for only one if you're between 62 and 66. Anything older than that is clearly retirement age by the later years of the office.

I'm sure that there are some people who will have the presence of mind to be able to handle the job after that age, but there are also some people that have the presence of mind to do the job before they're 36.

Honestly, I'd love it if presidential candidates were given a number of tests on reasoning, critical thinking, economics, military strategy, foreign policy, basic American and Global history, and fairly extensive civics. They wouldn't have to ace everything. But it would give Americans an idea about where their strengths lie and allow people to make an educated decision.

I would have the tests authored by a bipartisan congressional commission and kept confidential.

Ask them some questions about things like the effects of the Lend Lease Act under President Roosevelt, or the US strategy under Reagan to bankrupt the Soviets... Maybe something about the fall of the Roman Republic, the civil rights movement, or the effects of jim crow during reconstruction. You could ask them about the effects of tariffs, or governmental stimulus.
 
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noble cane

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Honestly, I'd love it if presidential candidates were given a number of tests on reasoning, critical thinking, economics, military strategy, foreign policy, basic American and Global history, and fairly extensive civics. They wouldn't have to ace everything. But it would give Americans an idea about where their strengths lie and allow people to make an educated decision.

I would have the tests authored by a bipartisan congressional commission and kept confidential.
Interesting.. so you are in favor of standardized testing to determine educational progress?

No politician left behind as it were...
 
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astonmartin708

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Interesting.. so you are in favor of standardized testing to determine educational progress?

No politician left behind as it were...
I'm in favor of having candidates with better aptitudes running for office on both sides. A standardized test is better than no tests at all and it might deter some wack-a-doodles from running. Anyone think Kanye could pass a test on 3/4 of those subjects that I listed above?

The problem with standardized tests in schools, is that not everyone is competing for the same 10 jobs. You need to be able to teach a wider variety of things to kids. Some people will end up being musicians, or youtube content creators, or marketing majors. I think standardized tests are more viable when everyone is expected to know the same things within a single profession. Or, when they judge broad skills like basic budgeting, or reasoning.

Having a candidate who we know performs poorly in one area, might lead to the selection of uber-qualified cabinet members to make up for the candidates' areas of deficiency as well, so you might get better leadership overall instead of just semi-patronage positions. Maybe Obama would have scored high in civics, history, and foreign policy, but done mediocre in economics or military strategy. He might have been forced to publicly try and make up for that by adopting policies from experts in the field, or announcing a VP he thought should perform well in those ares.
 
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Gmoney4WW

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I'd say the president should have a max age of 70. You can run for two terms if you're 62 (or younger) in your first term, and you can run for only one if you're between 62 and 66. Anything older than that is clearly retirement age by the later years of the office.

I'm sure that there are some people who will have the presence of mind to be able to handle the job after that age, but there are also some people that have the presence of mind to do the job before they're 36.

Honestly, I'd love it if presidential candidates were given a number of tests on reasoning, critical thinking, economics, military strategy, foreign policy, basic American and Global history, and fairly extensive civics. They wouldn't have to ace everything. But it would give Americans an idea about where their strengths lie and allow people to make an educated decision.

I would have the tests authored by a bipartisan congressional commission and kept confidential.

Ask them some questions about things like the effects of the Lend Lease Act under President Roosevelt, or the US strategy under Reagan to bankrupt the Soviets... Maybe something about the fall of the Roman Republic, the civil rights movement, or the effects of jim crow during reconstruction. You could ask them about the effects of tariffs, or governmental stimulus.
...and you can run for only one if you're between 62 and 70. FIFY Unless you mean he has a max age of 70 while he's in office, rather than when he's on the campaign trail. That's ambiguous.
 

astonmartin708

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...and you can run for only one if you're between 62 and 70. FIFY Unless you mean he has a max age of 70 while he's in office, rather than when he's on the campaign trail. That's ambiguous.
I meant max age of 70 while in office.
 

astonmartin708

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Apparently Trump pronounces Yosemite like "anti-semite".... again, how did people elect this schlub.

 

aTUfan

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eliminate the dc career path; term limits, reduce congressional staffing, congressmen have to report all financial favors as income, no pension, no lifetime benefits. When you term is up, you get a hand shake and return home.
also if you have outstanding income tax debt, you lose voting privileges or better your office.

make them live like the rest of us
 

noble cane

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I'm in favor of having candidates with better aptitudes running for office on both sides. A standardized test is better than no tests at all and it might deter some wack-a-doodles from running. Anyone think Kanye could pass a test on 3/4 of those subjects that I listed above?

The problem with standardized tests in schools, is that not everyone is competing for the same 10 jobs. You need to be able to teach a wider variety of things to kids. Some people will end up being musicians, or youtube content creators, or marketing majors. I think standardized tests are more viable when everyone is expected to know the same things within a single profession. Or, when they judge broad skills like basic budgeting, or reasoning.

Having a candidate who we know performs poorly in one area, might lead to the selection of uber-qualified cabinet members to make up for the candidates' areas of deficiency as well, so you might get better leadership overall instead of just semi-patronage positions. Maybe Obama would have scored high in civics, history, and foreign policy, but done mediocre in economics or military strategy. He might have been forced to publicly try and make up for that by adopting policies from experts in the field, or announcing a VP he thought should perform well in those ares.
Considering that the biggest problem with public education is the teaching of standardized tests rather than critical thinking... i think your plan has a serious flaw..
 

TU_BLA

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eliminate the dc career path; term limits, reduce congressional staffing, congressmen have to report all financial favors as income, no pension, no lifetime benefits. When you term is up, you get a hand shake and return home.
also if you have outstanding income tax debt, you lose voting privileges or better your office.

make them live like the rest of us
Something we agree on. Lobbyist perks should be reclassified as bribes and illegal. We need to get that type of stuff out of state and federal politics. Last I checked individual corporations did not get a vote. This is also the problem with the Citizens United ruling.
 
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aTUfan

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I used to work for a company doing DoD contracts work. We could not even provide coffee and donuts for the military personnel we would meet with. But Congressmen could receive all kinds of freebies, before they would appropriate money..
 

noble cane

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Something we agree on. Lobbyist perks should be reclassified as bribes and illegal. We need to get that type of stuff out of state and federal politics. Last I checked individual corporations did not get a vote. This is also the problem with the Citizens United ruling.
Book deals and speaking engagements fall into this category as well.
 

lawpoke87

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Doesn't sound like Joe is down for Aston's test.....or a drug test for that matter.

 

TU_BLA

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Book deals and speaking engagements fall into this category as well.
After they're out of office, I don't care if they write a book or go on speaking tours.

Question: Are you OK with Ivanka and Trump Jr. and their books while they are technically in official government roles?
 

TU_BLA

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I used to work for a company doing DoD contracts work. We could not even provide coffee and donuts for the military personnel we would meet with. But Congressmen could receive all kinds of freebies, before they would appropriate money..
Yeah...my dad worked for Chamberlain Corp. for a while. I believe they made Howitzer shell casings. It was always a big deal when Raytheon built some new weapon delivery system as to whether or not Chamberlain would get the contract to build part of the actual weapon or not because if it lost out it would basically mean closing that factory down.
 

Weatherdemon

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Just watched a Bixby School Board meeting. What a cluster. I foresee a large influx of public school students into programs like Epic. Maybe time to start talking about public school funding ?
I'm seeing local parents that are mad about virtual schooling and wanting to transfer their kids to private schools.
I would think that private schools would likely go virtual as well.
Thoughts on that?
 

astonmartin708

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I'm seeing local parents that are mad about virtual schooling and wanting to transfer their kids to private schools.
I would think that private schools would likely go virtual as well.
Thoughts on that?
A lot of those parents will change their tune as they begin paying for medical care when their kids bring the virus home with them.
 
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Henry Kendall

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FWIW, Epic has been through approximately 140 audits over the years. Kinda feels like that is excessive.

Not all kids thrive in brick and mortar, not all kids thrive in virtual. Seems good that parents have options. Isn’t that how it should be?
 

noble cane

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I love the conversations of Epic vs virtual vs home school..

Our Superintentendent rails on and on against home schoolers and Epic... but when it comes nut cutting time he has no problem going on line with classes...

He used to say on home schools and epic offered no sports but that wasnt true because they both had baseball teams that no one in the okc metro wanted to play (multiple d-1 players) as well as basketball and football...

In the end it boils down to brick and mortar vs on line and union vs non union. The big question being who gets to divide up all that tax money when the overhead associated with those brick and mortars goes away and how will the teachers unions be able to continue funding the DNC without that money.
 
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astonmartin708

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I love the conversations of Epic vs virtual vs home school..

Our Superintentendent rails on and on against home schoolers and Epic... but when it comes nut cutting time he has no problem going on line with classes...

He used to say on home schools and epic offered no sports but that wasnt true because they both had baseball teams that no one in the okc metro wanted to play (multiple d-1 players) as well as basketball and football...

In the end it boils down to brick and mortar vs on line and union vs non union. The big question being who gets to divide up all that tax money when the overhead associated with those brick and mortars goes away and how will the teachers unions be able to continue funding the DNC without that money.
There are certainly advantages to brick and mortar schools beyond just sports. Home schooled kids tended to be far less socially prepared when they went to college. Also, home schools don't really offer daily quality instruction in things like Art, Theater, or Music where it's actually better to have a slightly larger ensemble size. Yes, the parent might be able to put their kids in a program that does something similar, but it won't be the same quality unless the parents can pay out the butt for private instruction.

I think another big difference is that all private schools don't require their teachers to be state certified. So they might have some expertise in a particular subject, but they might not have a particular expertise in TEACHING that subject.
 

noble cane

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There are certainly advantages to brick and mortar schools beyond just sports. Home schooled kids tended to be far less socially prepared when they went to college. Also, home schools don't really offer daily quality instruction in things like Art, Theater, or Music where it's actually better to have a slightly larger ensemble size. Yes, the parent might be able to put their kids in a program that does something similar, but it won't be the same quality unless the parents can pay out the butt for private instruction.

I think another big difference is that all private schools don't require their teachers to be state certified. So they might have some expertise in a particular subject, but they might not have a particular expertise in TEACHING that subject.
Committed those home school talking points down to memory, I see.

NJ has played a lot of ball with Homeschoolers over the last 10 yrs. Most were far more socially responsible than their public school counterparts. Several of them will be playing D-1 this spring.

And let us not forget. Greg Harrington was home schooled. He seemed well adjusted.

And i had several professors at TU (private school) that were not certified teachers or PHDs but they were experts in their field and taught it very well...
 
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astonmartin708

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Committed those home school talking points down to memory, I see.

NJ has played a lot of ball with Homeschoolers over the last 10 yrs. Most were far more socially responsible than their public school counterparts. Several of them will be playing D-1 this spring.

And let us not forget. Greg Harrington was home schooled. He seemed well adjusted.

And i had several professors at TU (private school) that were not certified teachers or PHDs but they were experts in their field and taught it very well...
LMAO. Well, your experience has been quite a bit different than mine. Literally every single person I ever met that was home schooled for any significant period of time was nowhere near as sociable as anyone I went to public school with. They tended to say odd things at odd moments in conversations which made it hard for them to make friends. That's annecdotal, but I'm sticking to it.

I went to private school in Elementary and at TU. I can tell you that some teachers at these private schools aren't fit to teach. The benefit at TU was that you were able to pick your major and schedule strategically to miss bad teachers and even then I had a couple classes that I had to take with people that shouldn't have been teachers to begin with, even if they DID have PHD's. You don't really have that luxury in private elementary, jh, or high school.

I wouldn't replace public schools with private schools. I would work on improving the quality of the public schools and the quality of the neighborhoods that feed into the schools. Typically, the problem with low income public schools isn't the teachers, it's the socioeconimc background of the kids that your kids are around. That's what you're buying yourself out of when you send your kids to private school.
 
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Bendman

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Some parents who can’t send their young kids to school are sending them to private day care where there are fewer protections, lower paid staff and less room for distancing.

The US could rethink ‘education’ and focus more on Safer, non classroom activities for students for the next year. Finland for example doesn’t teach reading or math skills in early grades and lets kids play and socialize mostly outside under supervision. Yet their high school test scores in math and science on international tests are far higher than US scores. So what if kids get less formal training for a year? Our thinking seems constrained by the current classroom model.
 
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astonmartin708

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Some parents who can’t send their young kids to school are sending them to private day care where there are fewer protections, lower paid staff and less room for distancing.

The US could rethink ‘education’ and focus more on Safer, non classroom activities for students for the next year. Finland for example doesn’t teach reading or math skills in early grades and lets kids play and socialize mostly outside under supervision. Yet their high school test scores in math and science on international tests are far higher than US scores. So what if kids get less formal training for a year? Our thinking seems constrained by the current classroom model.
A lot of people here don't care about how their kids are actually educated. They use school as a day care.
 

lawpoke87

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A lot of people live in consistently poor performing school districts and have very few options where their kids attend school or the quality of that education. Rinse then repeat the cycle.
 

astonmartin708

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A lot of people live in consistently poor performing school districts and have very few options where their kids attend school or the quality of that education. Rinse then repeat the cycle.
I don’t disagree, but that’s why you need to break the cycle. Allowing every parent of a terribly behaved child to send that kid to a privatized school(via vouchers) just degrades the quality of the private schools and it does it with a middleman profiting from the children. It would be better to focus on improving the socioeconomic status of the poorly performing schools so the kids act better as their parents are able to provide better home-lives.

I’m all for magnate schools for and vouchers for kids who are academically outstanding, but not simply because you don’t like the quality of schools in your area. I would focus on improving the public schools rather than just giving up on them.
 

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