Tailgating
- Thread starter Henry Kendall
- Start date
Oh I've seen that debacle. That's not even a band - that's a bunch of weird nerds using drum sticks to hit buckets or sinks hanging from their necks. How they are still allowed to "perform" is beyond me. They are an embarrassment to the university.
No argument from me there. The argument lies whether there needs to be this whole culture of invented competition where coaches and organizers mutually grift from parents by selling dreams that their kid really is just as good as you think he is. Everything you are describing there a kid can get on their own in their bedroom with a guitar or in a high school band that has a recital twice a year.
And whether the Tulsa music community really needs to spend that much money and time on high school band to the detriment of personal finances and the kid's welfare.
And why people living in houses that doubled in value in Tulsa in the last ten years claim they can't afford to send a kid to TU on a partial. Could it be that the kid was competing in all of that because the parents wanted their peers to know their child was the best at something and going to TU in their mind isn't quite the best? Cause whether your kid is playing oboe or volleyball, NYU is a lot more expensive than TU, so they were either looking for a free lunch or devalue the TU experience, once the choice is paying full fare for NYU or a fraction of that for TU. So its frustrating to read that local parents want to TU to fully fund five to seven percent of the entire student body to fund music education when those same students can and should be asked to pay between $5,000 and $20,000 to fund their music education, the parents have it, they've spent similar amounts in high school on music education, and they go up the road if they dont get the hand out.
I'm not arguing against your ideas about TU competing, or not. I agree with a lot of points in that last paragraph.
But there a lot of attributes to playing in a large band that you don't get in a small ensemble, and vice versa. They both are good. The best musical experience from what I've observed has been a bit of both.
A lot of those arguments in the first two paragraphs could and has been made validly against football. That's why I mentioned football in my post earlier.
And yes band and football have become more than a bit extreme in their costs and time.
They tried solving it with Ron Predl and the marching band ensemble with speakers. I was on the field for that experiment. Wouldn't have minded having those speakers at my house for a few parties! Here comes the Po Po.
Much like BLA's son, I had to choose between soccer and band. I chose soccer. As I near age 60, I still play both, though my percussion skills are not impressive these days. I get the value. I dont get paying people to lie to you and your kids.
Every kid who ever made it to the World Cup in soccer will tell you they got there by playing with a ball with themselves or friends every day, including Christmas, for at least one hour. If they have the natural talents, then the skill you gain from that is enough. Coaching and organized games can actually hurt you. The one exception to that may be keeper play. I can't imagine all of that stuff BLA is describing with the Union band helps the kids grow as musicians. It may put pressure on them to practice, but if they've got the talent and interest, they dont need such pressure. Its all invented for someone else's benefit.
Im glad the speakers went away. Stead quite rightly concluded that if we couldn't raise money for a decent sized band, we shouldn't be playing large classification football and by god we are playing FBS football. But raising money isn't just relying on donors or corporate tax breaks or small donations. Its called paid tuition dollars.
I made the call the other way, and chose band over soccer.(non music scholarship)
I don't think band is great for the talented musicians, it's great for the average musician. But it plants a seed in the talented musicians. Many talented musicians have their ability grow beyond the band in high school and/or college. That's great for them. That's when they quit the high school band, and move on to more challenging endeavors.(A rock/jazz band, a classical music school, etc.)
I've seen several musicians do just that, and move on to something better. But they still got the seed in high school band. They may have had to throw some of what they learned(too wrote for instance) out the window on their own. I never felt it was a great detriment to them though. If you are a talented musician, throwing out the bad lessons is something their talent allows them to do.
As for soccer, I don't know how difficult it is for the league soccer player to get rid of bad habits, when they move on.
Changing topics: there’s football at Chapman Stadium on Thursday night. They’re hoping for a crowd of 20k, but I’m doubtful just based on the day of the week.
I don’t know any of the kids any more but will still probably go since they’re making a big deal about it,
I don’t know any of the kids any more but will still probably go since they’re making a big deal about it,
This I agree with. Two people in my high school band went on to play other instruments and write or record number one songs. They didn’t need to spend $500 on matching hats and warmups or March in the Macy’s parade to do it though. The talent was always there.
It's the ability to be part of something competitive in a team setting if you're not the uber, naturally athletic type. And if you think Owasso or Union is over the top with the marching band thing, take a gander at Broken Arrow where the band has won several national championships over the past 15 years. The kids in that band know the only thing they're doing in HS is band. At least at Union they give you the option of not doing marching band and only be part of a concert ensemble. My son did that for 2 years and decided to move on this year because band as a class was a drag on his GPA despite getting an A in it (soccer is also a drag on the GPA as it is considered a class but isn't weighted the same as Calculus, AP Chemistry or AP Physics...and yes he's taking those classes too).
I marched with a very competitive marching band in HS and then decided to do DCI (drum and bugle corps) for the experience and for the competition. I marched in the TU marching band because I thought I missed marching when in fact I missed the competitive aspect, rehearsing to get better, being part of a group with a collective goal of being better.
This has the chance to be the game of the year in 6A1 right off the bat. I'm glad they're doing it at Chapman/Skelly as I know Union and Jenks are scheduled in their respective home stadiums for the next few seasons vs playing the Backyard Brawl at Skelly. After what Union spent on their stadium and facilities around the stadium, I can understand why (although this year's game is at Hunter Dwelley which is pedestrian when compared to what BA and Union have built).
Now if you want to talk about throwing money down the black hole - that’s volleyball. We did that for two years at the club level, then found out in high school that the girl at 6’ 1” wasn’t tall enough to man the middle and was sent back over to the basketball gym. She cried but I felt like I just got a pay raise.
I was part of the transition out of that and delighted to see the speakers go. After the end the speakers were removed from the carts and those things shuffled equipment between the Annex and stadium for years.
It's just a dilluted version of the Stanford band. To which, I saw the Stanford band at the Rose Parade and bowl a number of years back and if TU ever gets to that point we need to pack it in. What an embarrassment..
My understanding is both the Stanford band and the Rice band are not actually sponsored parts of their respective music depts. but they are clubs that anyone can join.
It’s just a matter of time before the Stanford band gets cancelled or sued or both. They have a long history of religious bigotry against Catholics, Muslims Jews, and Mormons.
Robert Shapiro famously referred to them as causing the lowest point in American judicial history for playing “She’s Not There” by the Zombies on the steps of the LA County courthouse during the OJ Simpson trial.
They have a long history of coerced and forced drug and alcohol abuse, hazing, and sexual violence. The male manager of the pompon girls is traditionally referred to as The Ass Man.
That’s your federal tax dollars at work, folks.
The male manager of the pompon girls is traditionally referred to as The Ass Man.
I didn’t know Kramer went to school there.
I didn’t know Kramer went to school there.
You are correct. At Rice though, there is someone with a music degree who works for the University that answers the phone and fields the complaints. While at another university I had a professor named Dr. Cesario, terrible professor, that ended up at one point being the guy responsible for that fiasco down there. It was a fitting position for him being that he could do no damage. That happened organically....
We did the traveling softball with my daughter in the mid 2000's and it was a money hole too.
You left out Cheer. That one is right up there as well. All that glitter adds up.
Basketball was by far the least expensive club/school sport that we participated in.
My daughter did a competition dance/pom thing for the first time last Fall/Winter. Craziness. And she's about to get into swimming...and she wants to do volleyball. Seriously, after the competitive club soccer I can't afford all 3, nor do we, in this or any parallel universe have the time to do all of them...
I had a client whose daughter’s high school cheer costs totaled more than the remainder of the household expenses combined for a family of 5, excluding mortgage and transpo.
So there is a guy named Michael Cesario who is a show designer for top notch HS marching bands and DCI corps. I wonder if Bob (aka a-hole) is related
No, they are not. I worked with Michael on a few occasions before getting out of the teaching field. Michael is a hoot and a damn smart designer...
I'm doing Airbnb for the Tulsa games. Less expensive and better options.
In case some of you missed it, and the folks at TU are reading this thread, I’ll just leave this here:
https://www.yardbarker.com/general_...s_over_new_tailgating_rules/s1_17068_37787575
I seriously think baseball is the most expensive sport to play. When I coached softball the costs were astronomical. We played tournaments every weekend, some in state, some out of state. You would have fuel, lodging, food, cost of entrance, tournament fees... then just the team itself. We had 4 different uniforms, each ran about $75. Then a good softball bat runs upwards of $400+. Helmets could run $100+. Cleats can get up there as well. Each season could cost a player $2-3k on the low end and $4-5k towards the high end for a traveling competitive team. I will say something needs to be done to allow more kids to play at the higher levels. There is some great talent that will never make it because they just can't afford to be on the teams that will get you seen.
I saw the backlash from this on Twitter. I understand why some are upset about it.
It's like OU fans are blind to the cost of doing business in the SEC. My guess is those fan bases pay for their prime tailgating spots in some way, shape, or form be it being built in to the cost of their season tickets, through an athletic dept donation, or something else. Being in D1, and specifically FBS, athletics is no longer a part of a university and has become a full blown independent business entity for most schools. They will capitalize and take your money for each and every little thing they can. These schools only care about the fans on the surface...in the end if you don't donate money or buy season tickets or a season tailgate spot, you can park 3 miles away and fend for yourself. Spending a bazillion dollars on coaches and facelifts to stadiums is only a catch to get fans to pay for these other things...a tailgate spot costs little to nothing for a university to maintain so it's nearly all profit. They can whine and bitch about it all they want, my guess is OU pays as much attention to the whiners as they do to OSU
Here's the mini-field in the SW corner...pretty cool
