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Student debt

aTUfan

I.T.S. Athletic Director
Apr 18, 2011
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Biden wants to issue an executive order, canceling all student debt. Why? How?

My grandson is a Freshman at OU. So far his costs have been paid with a small scholarship. Mom and dad, grand parents. And his own savings from his work..

Do we get a refund too?
 
Biden wants to issue an executive order, canceling all student debt. Why? How?

My grandson is a Freshman at OU. So far his costs have been paid with a small scholarship. Mom and dad, grand parents. And his own savings from his work..

Do we get a refund too?
This is an excerpt from a November 16, Forbes article correcting people that make false statements/assumptions like the one you seem to have just made.

________________________________________________________________
"1. Biden will forgive all student loans
Myth:
Some borrowers falsely believe that Biden’s election means “cancel student loans” (specifically all student loans).

  • However, Biden, who is politically more moderate than... has not proposed to cancel all student loans.
  • Biden has proposed a plan to make two-year and four-year public colleges tuition-free for students whose families earn $125,000 or less.
  • That said, this does not mean all student loans will be forgiven and doesn’t apply existing student loans."
______________________________________________________


If he enacted legislation or an executive order according to his supported plans you and everybody else would not get a refund, but your grandson would get his next 3 years tuition for free. For once be correct in your many false statements. People are lobbying to get Biden to go further than this. But as far as I know, he has never said anything close to your statement of he wants to cancel all student debt with an executive order.

Do a little research.
 
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So those that paid for college with a loan will get it free, while those that don't use loan money get screwed.
 
You wouldn’t qualify for a loan and are too stupid to go to college. So why does it matter?

Oops . . . I also responded to an idiot. I will donate $50 to an art museum, which is another place rivalcane has never been.
 
Can someone smarter than myself explain how you can fund a program like this through an EO? If it’s possible then isn’t Congress now largely irrelevant?
 
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Can someone smarter than myself explain how you can fund a program like this through an EO? If it’s possible then isn’t Congress now largely irrelevant?
I know there are ways to move money around as the executive. But I’m not quite sure how it’s done. It’s partially why the executive has too much power as I’ve been saying for years.
 
What should be done is that the government should forgive the interest on the loans. There’s no reason that I should be paying 5.5% APY on a loan backed by the federal government, that I have no way of ever discharging, even in bankruptcy. Not at today’s interest rates. These loans are to our country’s benefit as they give us more skilled and productive workers which helps our economy. There’s no reason the government should benefit twice from a loan (once in increased GDP potential and once in interest payments)
 
Biden wants to issue an executive order, canceling all student debt. Why? How?

My grandson is a Freshman at OU. So far his costs have been paid with a small scholarship. Mom and dad, grand parents. And his own savings from his work..

Do we get a refund too?
Why are you complaining about this? It would be like complaining about the government starting the public school system more than 100 years ago... “well my parents spent a lot of money to teach me to read... so no one else should get it free”

Ultimately it will be a benefit to the economy as young adults are less burdened by unnecessary debts that many previous generations didn’t have to shoulder to make similar wages. It will increase consumer spending power and could help a number of our financial sectors including real estate.
 
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I know there are ways to move money around as the executive. But I’m not quite sure how it’s done. It’s partially why the executive has too much power as I’ve been saying for years.

I’m not sure that’s a viable option given the amount of money involved. Forgiving up to 40k per borrower would cost almost a trillion dollars. I like the idea of no interest loans btw
 
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I’m not sure that’s a viable option given the amount of money involved. Forgiving up to 40k per borrower would cost almost a trillion dollars. I like the idea of no interest loans btw
The average student loan debt among graduates is sitting at about 28,950 so some would get more, some would get less. I’m not sure it’s possible either... I just know Presidents have been able to find money occasionally.
 
Another thought....I’m not sure how you can forgive current student loans while making future student loans and expecting them to be paid back going forward. Makes zero sense. Also, do those who have paid back their loans in the last 10-20 years get some type of credit. Do you have to be current with you payments to qualify? Is there a requirement one graduated to be eligible. Just throwing out things this am.

If the taxpayers pay off the debt for millions shouldn’t we expect something from our colleges? Say capping the cost of attendance? Let’s be honest, the primary culprit for the rising student debt load are the colleges which college this revenue.
 
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Another thought....I’m not sure how you can forgive current student loans while making future student loans and expecting them to be paid back going forward. Makes zero sense. Also, do those who have paid back their loans in the last 10-20 years get some type of credit. Do you have to be current with you payments to qualify? Is there a requirement one graduated to be eligible. Just throwing out things this am.

If the taxpayers pay off the debt for millions shouldn’t we expect something from our colleges? Say capping the cost of attendance? Let’s be honest, the primary culprit for the rising student debt load are the colleges which college this revenue.
It's present tuition he has proposed paying off. You really can't forgive present loans, they would only exist for a millisecond, and then be forgiven? Past loans have never been put out as pat of his plan. Probably neither will happen, seeing as how one or both seats in Georgia are going to go Republican.
 
I haven’t seen serious evidence that Biden actually wants to executive order away student debt. It’s not possible. He recently made a vague comment that to me suggested legislation.

it is an issue that should be dealt with. The inflation in higher education cost makes no sense. I’ve seen what we pay some of our most educated faculty and it’s not reflective of the cost that students pay to go to TU. Something is getting lost in the process. The entire educational system spent years throwing money at cutesy crap, like sports, and not enough on actual classroom education. I don’t know how you reign that in, but it needs to be looked at.

Regardless, we need solutions and not idiotic comments like rivalcane made above that do nothing to move the ball.

I do think the dischargability issues need to be looked at. I don’t understand why a poli sci major gets penalized but most trustees will forgive blatant theft and corporate fraud.
 
Another thought....I’m not sure how you can forgive current student loans while making future student loans and expecting them to be paid back going forward. Makes zero sense. Also, do those who have paid back their loans in the last 10-20 years get some type of credit. Do you have to be current with you payments to qualify? Is there a requirement one graduated to be eligible. Just throwing out things this am.

If the taxpayers pay off the debt for millions shouldn’t we expect something from our colleges? Say capping the cost of attendance? Let’s be honest, the primary culprit for the rising student debt load are the colleges which college this revenue.
There are certainly lots of questions and I don’t think this would be best addressed in an executive order. It should be done by Congress.

IMHO:
1. You can’t cancel everyone’s student debt but keep allowing everyone subsequent generations to take out loans. It can’t just be a one time forgiveness to earn votes. You have to either A) mandate free tuition at public universities (won’t happen too expensive) or B) make it a level playing field for current and future generations by continuing the loan system but getting rid of interest.

2. Past payers won’t get anything.it unfortunate but I just don’t think you can grandfather them in due to the cost. Like I said to aTufan, it’s going to have to be looked at as a point forward investment into our society much like public k-12 education was when it first began. Just because you were illiterate as an adult at that time didn’t guarantee you all of the luxuries that the children started to get.

3.As far as being an “on time payer” or a graduate I’m not sure. That’s probably debatable.
 
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Why are you complaining about this? It would be like complaining about the government starting the public school system more than 100 years ago... “well my parents spent a lot of money to teach me to read... so no one else should get it free”

Ultimately it will be a benefit to the economy as young adults are less burdened by unnecessary debts that many previous generations didn’t have to shoulder to make similar wages. It will increase consumer spending power and could help a number of our financial sectors including real estate.
why do i pay and the loan people dont.
 
why do i pay and the loan people dont.
The loan people have probably paid more than most people have out of their own pockets do to interest.

It’s simply a cost of being poor. When you’re poor you can’t just pay for all of your education up front so you get to pay a premium that the well off kids didn’t which puts you even further behind the rich kids.

(I know that not all peoplewho don’t take out loans are rich per se... but they’re better off than most)

pretty sure my TU education cost me 41K in loans, and that was with work study and good scholarships for music and academics. To pay it off, I will have paid ~58K over the life of the loans. Why should I have to pay a $17K premium for education on top of what my peers paid years ago? Just because I grew up poor I should be charged more to learn?
 
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The loan people have probably paid more than most people have out of their own pockets do to interest.

It’s simply a cost of being poor. When you’re poor you can’t just pay for all of your education up front so you get to pay a premium that the well off kids didn’t which puts you even further behind the rich kids.

(I know that not all peoplewho don’t take out loans are rich per se... but they’re better off than most)

pretty sure my TU education cost me 41K in loans, and that was with work study and good scholarships for music and academics. To pay it off, I will have paid ~58K over the life of the loans. Why should I have to pay a $17K premium for education on top of what my peers paid years ago? Just because I grew up poor I should be charged more to learn?

As a fellow poor kid I tend to agree. We could do away with interest on federal loans for a reasonable cost to the taxpayers at least for the near term due to cheap bond yields.
 
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just another "Tax the Rich".

But many people who are able to pay as you go are not rich, just trying to avoid the debt.
 
You would have to have student debt to have this concern, atufan. You clearly never qualified for the first part of that.
He is too worried about his rights being taken away because covid is a hoax because the YouTube video told him so
 
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Pairing this with tying federal dollars to a state college tuition cap would make some sense. You can’t have borderline unlimited subsidization of loans to purchase a product and then allow the colleges themselves to set the price of the product.
 
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Pairing this with tying federal dollars to a state college tuition cap would make some sense. You can’t have borderline unlimited subsidization of loans to purchase a product and then allow the colleges themselves to set the price of the product.

So do the Fed’s get out of the business of making student loans to attend private universities? Such a practice would seem to be very bad news for schools like TU.
 
So do the Fed’s get out of the business of making student loans to attend private universities? Such a practice would seem to be very bad news for schools like TU.

I don't know that I’d advocate that specifically, but sure, virtually any effort to reign in college tuition would hurt colleges financially. They’re just naming their price these days. I mainly care about public colleges though. They’re state institutions and should not run like a business constantly trying to maximize profit for expansion.
 
The entire public higher education system in Oklahoma is a mess. There are too many fiefdoms that have been artificially subsidized to placate underperforming institutions at the expense of legitimate needs. It makes no sense whatsoever that there isn’t a real four year public institution in Tulsa, but you have satellite campuses for NSU, Langston, and so on. Likewise, the state doesn’t need a public liberal arts college in Chickasha and the little towns don’t all need animal husbandry programs, like Wilburton has. Does OU Tulsa serve a legitimate purpose other than occupying real estate that no one wants to sit empty? Does OSU Tulsa really need to pay utilities on buildings that no one uses? It would be better used as transitional housing for homeless people.

Decisions need to be made and that would require leadership that didn’t care if they lost the next election.
 
just another "Tax the Rich".

But many people who are able to pay as you go are not rich, just trying to avoid the debt.
75% of students have to take out loans. You think they're all taking out high interest loans just because they don't care about taking on the debt? It's because there would be no way to go to school without the loans. The kids that are able to pay their way are typically doing it with the help of parents or relatives. They may not be ultra rich, but they certainly tend to be better off than probably 90% of students (10% are probably able to get through school based on academic scholarships alone, and another 5% are probably athletes)
 
What’s next? If you make under a certain amount you get home loans with no interest? No one seems to understand that if you keep giving more entitlement money somebody has to pay for it.
 
What’s next? If you make under a certain amount you get home loans with no interest? No one seems to understand that if you keep giving more entitlement money somebody has to pay for it.
I've always been of the opinion that paying double the value of your home loan in interest over it's life is (philosophically) usury. But I know that's not a widely accepted belief in our society so I wouldn't push it that far. I will; however, note that the charging of interest at all has come in and out of fashion in the major religions of the world.

You have in Exodus, "“If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him. 26 If ever you take your neighbor's cloak in pledge, you shall return it to him before the sun goes down, 27 for that is his only covering, and it is his cloak for his body; in what else shall he sleep? And if he cries to me, I will hear, for I am compassionate."

In Ezekiel. "He lends money for interest and makes excessive profits. Will this person live? He will not live. He has done all these disgusting things. So he must die, and he will be responsible for his own death."

For a long time the Catholic Church forbade lending with interests. Jews forbade lending to other Jews with interest, but they made exceptions for lending with interest to Christians and Muslims. Muslims still have sects that forbid interest though they (out of greed) have come up with loopholes in their doctrine to allow them to basically do so. Even the Hindu's had laws that prohibited those in the upper castes from charging interest.
 
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Not rich. Just worked and saved in order not to need a loan. Now you get penalized for trying to do the right thing.

Istead of saving money to pay for college, should spend it on a new flat screen, vacations and cars; and rely on the gov for college.
 
Not rich. Just worked and saved in order not to need a loan. Now you get penalized for trying to do the right thing.

Istead of saving money to pay for college, should spend it on a new flat screen, vacations and cars; and rely on the gov for college.
You are so out of touch with how much college costs that it's funny.
 
Just for example, to show aTUfan that it's nigh impossible to "work your way through school" these days. The median household income for 1969 was $9,430. In 2012 it had risen to $51, 371. In that same time the average cost of a 4 year institution with room and board had gone from $1,674 to $23, 872. If you break those education costs down into a percentage of household income the cost of university went from ~17.8 % (1,674 / 9,430) to ~45% (23,872 / 51, 371).

It's simply not possible for 99% of kids who are college age to save up enough and make enough during school to cover that much cost.

Proof: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_330.10.asp
 
You are so out of touch with how much college costs that it's funny.

Yes I do know.
Because it's expensive it should be free, to those did not work, save or earn scholarships to pay for it.

If someone gives something to you. You have no ownership. it's not yours'.
 
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My children never had a vacation, nor did they get birthday presents, many Christmas gifts or any extras growing up as we saved money every month and put it in a 529 for them. It was an enormous sacrifice and our children were well aware they did not have things that many other children their age did. I worked two jobs and cleaned houses and office buildings nights and weekends. My spouse continues to work two jobs. We did without so that our children could be without college debt. When they went to school and saw their friends worried and full of anxiety over student loans they were thankful and grateful. We were thankful and grateful that both of them worked hard to earn scholarships to help stretch their 529. We are a blue collar 2nd generation American family. You do not have to be rich to save for college you just have to be willing to do without. Most people are not willing to make sacrifices. The mention of hard work and doing without offends most Americans and they try to shame anyone that implies that hard work pays off. I know it can be done ..... we did it.
 
My children never had a vacation, nor did they get birthday presents, many Christmas gifts or any extras growing up as we saved money every month and put it in a 529 for them. It was an enormous sacrifice and our children were well aware they did not have things that many other children their age did. I worked two jobs and cleaned houses and office buildings nights and weekends. My spouse continues to work two jobs. We did without so that our children could be without college debt. When they went to school and saw their friends worried and full of anxiety over student loans they were thankful and grateful. We were thankful and grateful that both of them worked hard to earn scholarships to help stretch their 529. We are a blue collar 2nd generation American family. You do not have to be rich to save for college you just have to be willing to do without. Most people are not willing to make sacrifices. The mention of hard work and doing without offends most Americans and they try to shame anyone that implies that hard work pays off. I know it can be done ..... we did it.
I can’t tell you the number of women who have told me they can’t afford to send their kids to state schools in Florida, while they were holding a $5 cup of coffee and wearing $250 sunglasses. Florida is amongst the cheapest in the nation AND they have state subsidized programs. If you have a 2.5 in high school and modest test scores, community college is already free with a stipend and books included.

The student loan gig is a great example of how the Democratic Party has set up a mutually supporting infrastructure inside and outside of government to fleece the government checkbook. Granted, both parties do it. What’s despicable is that they knew it would disproportionately impact their supporters long term, but it polled well. Boomers wanted to send all their kids to school and die thinking they were better off than their parents and did more for them than the WWII generation. So the Dem machine said “Vote for us and your kids will live the American Dream” and America bought it. And Republican bankers were all too eager to oblige.

To answer lawpoke’s question, this is a simplified answer, but the US government holds the actual note or in very limited cases, the obligation to pay the debt. They are engaged in a business activity not government function. Under federal law, supported by constitutional concepts, business activities are the domain of the executive, subject to oversight and funding of Congress. No appropriation is necessary in this case. It’s simply a business decision not to collect the debt. Your lender could send you a satisfaction on your house at any time if it was in their best interests. The theory is that people who aren’t paying student loan debt would have more money to invest, spend, and hire other workers at their small businesses. (It sounds like trickle down to me that they criticize, but whatever.)

For the reasons you cite and the concerns about equity mentioned by others above, total loan forgiveness is out of the question, but will likely happen in the final days of this or the next Dem administration.

One potential solution that the IRS poo poos as “doctor and lawyer welfare” would be to amend Section 125 of the Internal Revenue Code to allow you to divert pre-tax dollars to repayment plans much like a 401K let’s you do that with retirement savings. I pay one third of my dollars in taxes, then the government takes another five or so percent in my loan payment from what’s left. That makes no sense. For most people, you’d pay the debt off quicker that way than loan forgiveness work through public service. For a growing number of Americans, they will never save for retirement or buy a house. They can’t afford it. So this would make sense, rather than tax credits on a home or a 401K. But the construction and investment broker lobby wants you to divert your money to them, not the government.

so there’s resistance inside and outside the government. The IRS doesn’t want to administer that. The loan forgiveness programs want a reason to exist.

There’s lots of moving parts.
 
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Rather than people relying on the government to pay their student loan debt (Ie. free college), the government should do what it does best, taxes.
Give tax breaks to companies that provide assistance with employees college loans.
 
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My children never had a vacation, nor did they get birthday presents, many Christmas gifts or any extras growing up as we saved money every month and put it in a 529 for them. It was an enormous sacrifice and our children were well aware they did not have things that many other children their age did. I worked two jobs and cleaned houses and office buildings nights and weekends. My spouse continues to work two jobs. We did without so that our children could be without college debt. When they went to school and saw their friends worried and full of anxiety over student loans they were thankful and grateful. We were thankful and grateful that both of them worked hard to earn scholarships to help stretch their 529. We are a blue collar 2nd generation American family. You do not have to be rich to save for college you just have to be willing to do without. Most people are not willing to make sacrifices. The mention of hard work and doing without offends most Americans and they try to shame anyone that implies that hard work pays off. I know it can be done ..... we did it.
Isn’t one of your kids on an athletic Scholly at TU? Or did I get the wrong impression?
I can tell you that my mom worked a full time job and a part time job that was almost as many hours as a full time job and the only reason I was able to (barely) afford school was because my grandparents just so happened to pass away not long before I went to college and they left a large sum of money and I still have substantial amounts of student loans and I had a ton in scholarship money from TU.

The fact that you think anyone can do it is just turning a blind eye.For many families, it doesn’t matter ho hard you work. It doesn’t matter that your kids skipped birthdays or XMas. Even if you save $500 per child per year with no birthday / Christmas spending. If you started out a savings account with $1000 initial deposit for your kids and put $50 / month for 18 years at 6%APY, that’s only 22K...that’s not nearly enough to cover the entire cost of college even with additional scholarships unless the kid gets a full ride.
 
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Isn’t one of your kids on an athletic Scholly at TU? Or did I get the wrong impression?
I can tell you that my mom worked a full time job and a part time job that was almost as many hours as a full time job and the only reason I was able to (barely) afford school was because my grandparents just so happened to pass away not long before I went to college and they left a large sum of money and I still have substantial amounts of student loans and I had a ton in scholarship money from TU.

The fact that you think anyone can do it is just turning a blind eye.For many families, it doesn’t matter ho hard you work. It doesn’t matter that your kids skipped birthdays or XMas. Even if you save $500 per child per year with no birthday / Christmas spending. If you started out a savings account with $1000 initial deposit for your kids and put $50 / month for 18 years at 6%APY, that’s only 22K...that’s not nearly enough to cover the entire cost of college even with additional scholarships unless the kid gets a full ride.
Unless you have a state government with a brain that understands the best kids leave forever if the financial aid is better.

Look at Florida. You can work your way through no problem if you are even mildly interested in school. OR if your parents pre-paid through employer deductions. (And way too many barely scrape by partying in Gainesville or smoking pot on the beach at UCF without these benefits.)

Every kid in the state that makes a 3.0 in high school and a 26 ACT pays no more than $39 a credit hour so long as they do 75 hours of community service (your frat takes care of that) and maintain a 2.5.
 
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