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Gotta cheer for the Rays.

Small market. Smaller payroll.

A win by the Rays could reset the whole leagues salary structure and make a lot of high priced free agents join the ranks of the unemployed.
 
Gotta cheer for the Rays.

Small market. Smaller payroll.

A win by the Rays could reset the whole leagues salary structure and make a lot of high priced free agents join the ranks of the unemployed.
It won't do anything like that. The only way MLB becomes interesting and give small market teams a regular chance is if MLB institutes a hard cap vs their luxury tax. The Royals were essentially a 2 yr fluke because they hit paydirt in the draft with some picks and were able to put together a run with the kids and other teams' castoffs. The Rays will be this way and will follow this year's success with a 2-3 year cycle of being good until the contracts are up before they end up with the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Giants or Mets. Sure smaller market teams will keep 1 free agent to be because they're a local favorite but it's not the rule. Some clubs will spend for a few seasons trying to buy their championship (see Miami). The only smaller market teams that seem to do well over time are the Cardinals and the A's. The A's ability to be successful in the worst stadium in MLB is a testament to MoneyBall and how well Billy Beane understands it now, but even it is hit or miss.
 
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I can't stand the Dodgers but I can not out of good conscience root for an American League team. They do not play baseball...if you pitch, you hit.
 
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I can't stand the Dodgers but I can not out of good conscience root for an American League team. They do not play baseball...if you pitch, you hit.
I have watched a grand total of 12 pitches in the WS. As a kid, baseball was the sport I loved to play and watch. I think I watched every game ESPN broadcast in the mid 80s, doing homework, etc. I grew up a lifelong Red Sox fan and would listen to games on the radio as well. I loved watching with my great grandmother who would curse at them in her Irish brogue when they'd do something stupid. Anyone who had cable in the late 80s/early 90s knew that TBS was always available for a Braves game as well and I developed a secondary fandom for the Braves (it was also neat visiting the site of old Braves field in Boston which happened to be where Boston University's (my first attended university) Nickerson Field sat). They bronzed homeplate and set it into the concrete in the concourse of the stadium. My gf in high school's mom used to tell stories of how her family would go to Braves games there because it was easier to get tickets and Red Sox fans were seen as more of the high society type, so the common folk went to the Braves games. My first 2 years of college I lived across the Mass Pike from the Green Monster, you could hear the cheers when something went right for the Sox...I celebrated in Kenmore Square in 1990 when the Sox clinched their playoff berth. My roommate and I bought scalper tickets in the 2nd inning of a game and sat 10 rows behind the A's dugout on the 3rd base line to watch Dave Stewart and Roger Clemens go toe to toe in the pitching matchup of the year.

It's hard to watch baseball today. The games take way too long...the players are whiny-a$$ crybabies, and the game has turned into a high priced, slow paced version of backyard homerun derby. Where are the Rickey Henderson, Willie McGee's, and Vince Coleman's stealing 100 bases a season. Where's the good defense? Where are the pitchers who wanted to pitch complete games. Instead we get guys like Brett Gardner hitting 30+ HRs a year with juiced balls against horrible pitching. No one bunts or sacrifices anymore and manufactured runs are all but non-existent (thus eliminating the need to make pitchers hit). The game is pretty unwatchable for me now.
 
I have watched a grand total of 12 pitches in the WS. As a kid, baseball was the sport I loved to play and watch. I think I watched every game ESPN broadcast in the mid 80s, doing homework, etc. I grew up a lifelong Red Sox fan and would listen to games on the radio as well. I loved watching with my great grandmother who would curse at them in her Irish brogue when they'd do something stupid. Anyone who had cable in the late 80s/early 90s knew that TBS was always available for a Braves game as well and I developed a secondary fandom for the Braves (it was also neat visiting the site of old Braves field in Boston which happened to be where Boston University's (my first attended university) Nickerson Field sat). They bronzed homeplate and set it into the concrete in the concourse of the stadium. My gf in high school's mom used to tell stories of how her family would go to Braves games there because it was easier to get tickets and Red Sox fans were seen as more of the high society type, so the common folk went to the Braves games. My first 2 years of college I lived across the Mass Pike from the Green Monster, you could hear the cheers when something went right for the Sox...I celebrated in Kenmore Square in 1990 when the Sox clinched their playoff berth. My roommate and I bought scalper tickets in the 2nd inning of a game and sat 10 rows behind the A's dugout on the 3rd base line to watch Dave Stewart and Roger Clemens go toe to toe in the pitching matchup of the year.

It's hard to watch baseball today. The games take way too long...the players are whiny-a$$ crybabies, and the game has turned into a high priced, slow paced version of backyard homerun derby. Where are the Rickey Henderson, Willie McGee's, and Vince Coleman's stealing 100 bases a season. Where's the good defense? Where are the pitchers who wanted to pitch complete games. Instead we get guys like Brett Gardner hitting 30+ HRs a year with juiced balls against horrible pitching. No one bunts or sacrifices anymore and manufactured runs are all but non-existent (thus eliminating the need to make pitchers hit). The game is pretty unwatchable for me now.
What I can't stand is the defensive shifts they use now. I wish there was a rule stating that there must be two fielders on each side of 2nd base and within a yard of the dirt. I do like the 3 batter minimum rule. It keeps these managers who are too involved with the game from changing pitchers twice every inning.
 
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What I can't stand is the defensive shifts they use now. I wish there was a rule stating that there must be two fielders on each side of 2nd base and within a yard of the dirt. I do like the 3 batter minimum rule. It keeps these managers who are too involved with the game from changing pitchers twice every inning.
MLB has tried to speed things up but until they get pitchers on the mound on an actual clock like in MiLB and start calling balls when they take too long. I do like the limited mound visits for the game to include the catcher and any fielder and if you go over then you're required to do a change. Batters stepping out after every pitch. I don't care about the shift as it doesn't take add or take away from the pace of the game really. If damn hitters would learn how to actually hit the ball the other way, it'd be easy to beat that shift and get teams out of it. I miss the days of Boggs and Mattingly and Tony Gwynn being able to drop a ball into the outfield within a yard or two of where they intended to hit the ball. Kills me how many teams put a runner on 2nd with no outs, down a run, and refuse to bunt to move the runner to 3rd. Makes even less sense when it's the home team refusing to do it.
 
I have watched a grand total of 12 pitches in the WS. As a kid, baseball was the sport I loved to play and watch. I think I watched every game ESPN broadcast in the mid 80s, doing homework, etc. I grew up a lifelong Red Sox fan and would listen to games on the radio as well. I loved watching with my great grandmother who would curse at them in her Irish brogue when they'd do something stupid. Anyone who had cable in the late 80s/early 90s knew that TBS was always available for a Braves game as well and I developed a secondary fandom for the Braves (it was also neat visiting the site of old Braves field in Boston which happened to be where Boston University's (my first attended university) Nickerson Field sat). They bronzed homeplate and set it into the concrete in the concourse of the stadium. My gf in high school's mom used to tell stories of how her family would go to Braves games there because it was easier to get tickets and Red Sox fans were seen as more of the high society type, so the common folk went to the Braves games. My first 2 years of college I lived across the Mass Pike from the Green Monster, you could hear the cheers when something went right for the Sox...I celebrated in Kenmore Square in 1990 when the Sox clinched their playoff berth. My roommate and I bought scalper tickets in the 2nd inning of a game and sat 10 rows behind the A's dugout on the 3rd base line to watch Dave Stewart and Roger Clemens go toe to toe in the pitching matchup of the year.

It's hard to watch baseball today. The games take way too long...the players are whiny-a$$ crybabies, and the game has turned into a high priced, slow paced version of backyard homerun derby. Where are the Rickey Henderson, Willie McGee's, and Vince Coleman's stealing 100 bases a season. Where's the good defense? Where are the pitchers who wanted to pitch complete games. Instead we get guys like Brett Gardner hitting 30+ HRs a year with juiced balls against horrible pitching. No one bunts or sacrifices anymore and manufactured runs are all but non-existent (thus eliminating the need to make pitchers hit). The game is pretty unwatchable for me now.

To me, the Rays do seem like a bunch of guys playing a game and having fun. They are definitely the exception though.
 
To me, the Rays do seem like a bunch of guys playing a game and having fun. They are definitely the exception though.
The Padres are one of those teams and fun to watch as well. Tatis Jr. is a crazy talented kid and they've got a bunch of those types of players.
 
The Padres are one of those teams and fun to watch as well. Tatis Jr. is a crazy talented kid and they've got a bunch of those types of players.

And we did get to see a guy try to steal home last night. The last one to do that successfully was Benny ‘The Jet’ Rodriguez.
 
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And we did get to see a guy try to steal home last night. The last one to do that successfully was Benny ‘The Jet’ Rodriguez.
I don’t watch MLB any more (PGA and LPGA are about the only professional sports I do now) but love the reference to Sandlot. It is one of my all-time favorite sports movies.
 
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I have watched a grand total of 12 pitches in the WS. As a kid, baseball was the sport I loved to play and watch. I think I watched every game ESPN broadcast in the mid 80s, doing homework, etc. I grew up a lifelong Red Sox fan and would listen to games on the radio as well. I loved watching with my great grandmother who would curse at them in her Irish brogue when they'd do something stupid. Anyone who had cable in the late 80s/early 90s knew that TBS was always available for a Braves game as well and I developed a secondary fandom for the Braves (it was also neat visiting the site of old Braves field in Boston which happened to be where Boston University's (my first attended university) Nickerson Field sat). They bronzed homeplate and set it into the concrete in the concourse of the stadium. My gf in high school's mom used to tell stories of how her family would go to Braves games there because it was easier to get tickets and Red Sox fans were seen as more of the high society type, so the common folk went to the Braves games. My first 2 years of college I lived across the Mass Pike from the Green Monster, you could hear the cheers when something went right for the Sox...I celebrated in Kenmore Square in 1990 when the Sox clinched their playoff berth. My roommate and I bought scalper tickets in the 2nd inning of a game and sat 10 rows behind the A's dugout on the 3rd base line to watch Dave Stewart and Roger Clemens go toe to toe in the pitching matchup of the year.

It's hard to watch baseball today. The games take way too long...the players are whiny-a$$ crybabies, and the game has turned into a high priced, slow paced version of backyard homerun derby. Where are the Rickey Henderson, Willie McGee's, and Vince Coleman's stealing 100 bases a season. Where's the good defense? Where are the pitchers who wanted to pitch complete games. Instead we get guys like Brett Gardner hitting 30+ HRs a year with juiced balls against horrible pitching. No one bunts or sacrifices anymore and manufactured runs are all but non-existent (thus eliminating the need to make pitchers hit). The game is pretty unwatchable for me now.

So you didn’t like the 2014-2015 Royals? Outside of complete games, they checked all your boxes.
 
It won't do anything like that. The only way MLB becomes interesting and give small market teams a regular chance is if MLB institutes a hard cap vs their luxury tax. The Royals were essentially a 2 yr fluke because they hit paydirt in the draft with some picks and were able to put together a run with the kids and other teams' castoffs. The Rays will be this way and will follow this year's success with a 2-3 year cycle of being good until the contracts are up before they end up with the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Giants or Mets. Sure smaller market teams will keep 1 free agent to be because they're a local favorite but it's not the rule. Some clubs will spend for a few seasons trying to buy their championship (see Miami). The only smaller market teams that seem to do well over time are the Cardinals and the A's. The A's ability to be successful in the worst stadium in MLB is a testament to MoneyBall and how well Billy Beane understands it now, but even it is hit or miss.
Money ball hasnt been a success...

They havent won a pennant in almost 30 yrs.
 
That’s too bad. But if you’ll remember, the first time he smarted off to me I told him that I was here long before he got here and would still be here well after he was gone. Guess I was right.

In keeping with the randomness of this thread, perhaps Pats is hiding in Ashvid’s basement.
 
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Money ball hasnt been a success...

They havent won a pennant in almost 30 yrs.
Winning pennants isn't easy for any of the non big market teams. I consider successful baseball finishing above .500 and/or making the playoffs because MLB hasn't yet succumbed to the notion you need to let more teams in so half the teams in the league make the playoffs. Even with the add'l WC teams it is still hard to sustain the winning needed to make the playoffs in MLB year in and year out. The A's have been in the playoffs 11 seasons out of the 23 that Beane has been the manager. In that same time the Pirates have made the playoffs 3 times. The Brewers have made it 5 times. The Padres have made it 4 times. Seattle- 3 times. Baltimore- 4 times. Baltimore and Seattle had the advantage of being in semi-large markets. Baltimore/DC would be considered a very market and the Orioles had no competition for fans until the Nationals became a thing recently. I would say MoneyBall has been a success considering the other factors involved in playing in Oakland. They don't get the money and honestly the fan base in the Bay Are is probably, right now, 70-30 in favor of the Giants. The Giants get the big ad revenue in the area, they get the TV deals, etc. Giants also play in a brand new stadium. The A's play in the worst stadium in MLB. The Coliseum opened in 1966. In the same time the Texas Rangers have played in 3 brand new ballparks. Oakland is not a very nice place.

The A's have done the small market thing better than almost any team in MLB.
 
So you didn’t like the 2014-2015 Royals? Outside of complete games, they checked all your boxes.
It was a great story. But it also sucks because you knew that there was no way KC could even keep the core of that team together for more than 2-3 years because they're never going to match New York/Boston/LA/Cubs over-priced bids on free agents. The hard cap in the NFL is what makes it interesting. If the NFL had a similar $ structure to MLB, the Green Bay Packers would forever be irrelevant, the Chiefs don't have a chance at winning the Super Bowl last year.
And I'll be honest, when my team is irrelevant like it has been the last 2 seasons, it's hard to get into baseball. My interest in the playoffs ended with the Cardinals and Yankees losing. On the Cardinals, it's basically fandom by marriage. On the Yankees, if the Red Sox aren't winning then I root for the Yankees and their billion dollar payroll to lose (plus I'm pretty sure they have a team PED program).
 
And we did get to see a guy try to steal home last night. The last one to do that successfully was Benny ‘The Jet’ Rodriguez.
I love that movie. Of course, parents need to beware as we've probably all seen it a hundred times on cable where they edit for content. My son likes the movie so he brought the DVD with him on a car trip once and was watching and one of the kid's yells "That's horsesh*t" and my wife goes "That's a lovely movie YOU'RE letting him watch".
 
Winning pennants isn't easy for any of the non big market teams. I consider successful baseball finishing above .500 and/or making the playoffs because MLB hasn't yet succumbed to the notion you need to let more teams in so half the teams in the league make the playoffs. Even with the add'l WC teams it is still hard to sustain the winning needed to make the playoffs in MLB year in and year out. The A's have been in the playoffs 11 seasons out of the 23 that Beane has been the manager. In that same time the Pirates have made the playoffs 3 times. The Brewers have made it 5 times. The Padres have made it 4 times. Seattle- 3 times. Baltimore- 4 times. Baltimore and Seattle had the advantage of being in semi-large markets. Baltimore/DC would be considered a very market and the Orioles had no competition for fans until the Nationals became a thing recently. I would say MoneyBall has been a success considering the other factors involved in playing in Oakland. They don't get the money and honestly the fan base in the Bay Are is probably, right now, 70-30 in favor of the Giants. The Giants get the big ad revenue in the area, they get the TV deals, etc. Giants also play in a brand new stadium. The A's play in the worst stadium in MLB. The Coliseum opened in 1966. In the same time the Texas Rangers have played in 3 brand new ballparks. Oakland is not a very nice place.

The A's have done the small market thing better than almost any team in MLB.
How many post season series have they won?
If memory serves this yrs 3 game wildcard was their first in a generation.

They play in one of the weakest divisions in MLB.

Pirates and brewers play in NL central.. thats Cards/Cubs territory.

Padres in the NL West.. Dodgers /Giants territory...

Moneyball's biggest flaw is that it confuses guys who play baseball with ballplayers..

My bosses loved that movie. They tried to make oil out of rock no one else wanted. Because they thought that no one else could see the quality but them.

Good rock is good for a reason... and not everyone that plays baseball is a ballplayer. Ballplayers win pennants.
 
It was a great story. But it also sucks because you knew that there was no way KC could even keep the core of that team together for more than 2-3 years because they're never going to match New York/Boston/LA/Cubs over-priced bids on free agents. The hard cap in the NFL is what makes it interesting. If the NFL had a similar $ structure to MLB, the Green Bay Packers would forever be irrelevant, the Chiefs don't have a chance at winning the Super Bowl last year.
And I'll be honest, when my team is irrelevant like it has been the last 2 seasons, it's hard to get into baseball. My interest in the playoffs ended with the Cardinals and Yankees losing. On the Cardinals, it's basically fandom by marriage. On the Yankees, if the Red Sox aren't winning then I root for the Yankees and their billion dollar payroll to lose (plus I'm pretty sure they have a team PED program).
Oh so sad, you’re team is irrelevant for the last two years. OMG, that’s horrible! Don’t act like you know how good the Royals were from late 2012 to 2016.

the 2016 team would’ve defended its title much better if Gordon and Moose don’t go down with injuries out of the gate.

With as much bs as you overstate, the Royals kicked the living shee ite out of everyone, playing the baseball you just said was a fluke.

like Spiccoli said ... is Jim Rice gonna get off the pot? Or is Fred Lynn gonna poop?
 
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Oh so sad, you’re team is irrelevant for the last two years. OMG, that’s horrible! Don’t act like you know how good the Royals were from late 2012 to 2016.

the 2016 team would’ve defended its title much better if Gordon and Moose don’t go down with injuries out of the gate.

With as much bs as you overstate, the Royals kicked the living shee ite out of everyone, playing the baseball you just said was a fluke.

like Spiccoli said ... is Jim Rice gonna get off the pot? Or is Fred Lynn gonna poop?


TRUTH!!!!
 
I am genetically bound to hate the Dodgers as my Great (Great?) Uncle was John Mcgraw. HOF manager for the New York Giants. 2nd in all time managerial wins and 1st in managerial wins in the NL.
 
Oh so sad, you’re team is irrelevant for the last two years. OMG, that’s horrible! Don’t act like you know how good the Royals were from late 2012 to 2016.

the 2016 team would’ve defended its title much better if Gordon and Moose don’t go down with injuries out of the gate.

With as much bs as you overstate, the Royals kicked the living shee ite out of everyone, playing the baseball you just said was a fluke.

like Spiccoli said ... is Jim Rice gonna get off the pot? Or is Fred Lynn gonna poop?
WTH? It wasn't a dig at the Royals but more the ownership and the state of MLB. You know how it ends for every small market team after 2-3 years. The Rays may have another 2-3 years in their kids but they'll trade them for picks and prospects as soon the year before their deal is up to someone who has a better chance to get them to sign an extension. I am not against free agency as much as the disparity between which teams can spend and which teams can't. Hell, even some of the ones who can don't make the right moves or over-extend themselves (see Anaheim, Boston). And my dig almost this entire thread is more against baseball and how long it takes. It's a tough watch and the game has lost its organicness. Someone mentioned all the analytics and the shift, and the 1 batter specialty pitchers (thing of the past now)...the DHs who can't play the field, the lack of manufactured runs, and the ability of a 5'5" 155 lb oompa loompa to hit the ball 450 feet because now you have cameras and signals everywhere to tip off pitches (or Bret Gardner's PEd stint with the Yankees).

And don't dis Jim Rice...he is one of my all time favorite players for more reasons than just the ability to hit a baseball.
 
WTH? It wasn't a dig at the Royals but more the ownership and the state of MLB. You know how it ends for every small market team after 2-3 years. The Rays may have another 2-3 years in their kids but they'll trade them for picks and prospects as soon the year before their deal is up to someone who has a better chance to get them to sign an extension. I am not against free agency as much as the disparity between which teams can spend and which teams can't. Hell, even some of the ones who can don't make the right moves or over-extend themselves (see Anaheim, Boston). And my dig almost this entire thread is more against baseball and how long it takes. It's a tough watch and the game has lost its organicness. Someone mentioned all the analytics and the shift, and the 1 batter specialty pitchers (thing of the past now)...the DHs who can't play the field, the lack of manufactured runs, and the ability of a 5'5" 155 lb oompa loompa to hit the ball 450 feet because now you have cameras and signals everywhere to tip off pitches (or Bret Gardner's PEd stint with the Yankees).

And don't dis Jim Rice...he is one of my all time favorite players for more reasons than just the ability to hit a baseball.

My bad, BLA. I'd had some cocktails that night so I decided to give you the what-for.
 
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