MLS

[TU_BLA]

Is it sad that I had to actually read a couple of paragraphs before I figured out this was a satire? I mean, it sounds like something Garber would say/do to help protect the bottom line.

https://www.thenutmegnews.com/curre...-to-change-name-citing-league-politics-policy

I honestly don't care if athletes or sportscasters talk politics or make statements. Sports is part of our society and they are affected just as much as anyone else by decisions an administration makes or the tone an administration sets. I'll leave it at that.

 

[TU_BLA]

So it is being leaked that MLS is set to announce St. Louis as the next expansion side. How St. Louis isn't already an MLS is beyond me as it is pretty much the hub of American soccer with some fantastic youth development clubs. Of course everyone is arguing what the name will be. Anyone who follows USL knows that Saint Louis FC is a great name and they have a great crest and color scheme already. I hope the MLS owners discuss using it with the current USL side.

I am firmly against using nicknames. They rarely work and sort of sully the soccer growth. IMO it works for the Timbers and Sounders because those clubs are decades old. But the Revolution and Earthquakes make it sound like arena football. The only team that came with the new MLS with a nickname that works is the LA Galaxy. They've created a recognizable brand along with the Herballife jerseys.

Some of the names I've heard include the St. Louis Steamers (old professional team), Gateway United. Keep it simple, keep it recognizable. the interlocking StL is a great thing to start with and incorporating the fleur-di-lis is also a must, IMO. And then they need to come up with a derby name for the games with Sporting KC and please be more creative than the I-70 Derby. Maybe something like the "Show Me Derby".

Anyway, it's happening and the stadium location will be one of the best being just a couple of blocks from Union Station, there should be plenty of opportunity for some good pre- and postgame activities.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

I hate 'em already!

 

[drboobay]

Earthquakes is an old NASL name like Timbers and Sounders. And Roughnecks.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I will be getting season tickets to the new STL MLS team as soon as they're available, I am so pumped that MLS is coming to STL!

 

[TU_BLA]

Earthquakes is an old NASL name like Timbers and Sounders. And Roughnecks.

OK, maybe can lay off the Earthquakes. They're playing well (right now) and averaging a healthy 17k per game. I get Portland and Seattle holding their names when you see the weekly atmospheres they play in at home. I guess the unofficial nicknames in Europe like "Foxes" for Leicester City FC do more to create culture and passionate fan bases.

There was also an interesting back and forth on Twitter about pro/rel in the US yesterday. Alexi Lalas probably had the best take on why it doesn't make sense for USSF to force it and one of the reasons is some of the clubs that would be promoted simply don't have the infrastructure in place to showcase at the highest level. Yeah, not all EPL teams play in shiny 80k seat stadiums. But look at the investment Brighton made in their stadium. Fulham and Sheffield play in great stadiums. No one's playing on a multi-use converted baseball stadiums. That said, I think the US is as close as it can be to studying and developing a pro/rel system here thta MLS and it's owners would find acceptable and there's finally a tiered structure that's defined on what is a 2nd division and 3rd division (and as someone mentioned none of the MLS^2 teams would be eligible for promotion). It's a complicated issue but I think pro/rel in the US would actually increase attendance at most venues, especially at the USL level, would bring more money in for TV, more advertisers, and ultimately grow the game in a positive way here.

 

[nevadanatural]

Team movement is another issue in this country. Liverpool isn’t suddenly going to pack up and become Southampton FC (name chosen at random) because someone built them a nicer stadium. Here that happens all the time in all sports. The Baseball As have had a home in three cities. The football Raiders were Oakland, LA, Oakland again and in 2020 will be Las Vegas. Reno’s Aces came from Tucson.

 

[TU_BLA]

Team movement is another issue in this country. Liverpool isn’t suddenly going to pack up and become Southampton FC (name chosen at random) because someone built them a nicer stadium. Here that happens all the time in all sports. The Baseball As have had a home in three cities. The football Raiders were Oakland, LA, Oakland again and in 2020 will be Las Vegas. Reno’s Aces came from Tucson.

Agreed. What is happening in Columbus is sad. I hope Precourt gets a sunburn in Austin...or attacked by a bat.

 

[HuffyCane]

So it is being leaked that MLS is set to announce St. Louis as the next expansion side. How St. Louis isn't already an MLS is beyond me as it is pretty much the hub of American soccer with some fantastic youth development clubs. Of course everyone is arguing what the name will be. Anyone who follows USL knows that Saint Louis FC is a great name and they have a great crest and color scheme already. I hope the MLS owners discuss using it with the current USL side.

I am firmly against using nicknames. They rarely work and sort of sully the soccer growth. IMO it works for the Timbers and Sounders because those clubs are decades old. But the Revolution and Earthquakes make it sound like arena football. The only team that came with the new MLS with a nickname that works is the LA Galaxy. They've created a recognizable brand along with the Herballife jerseys.

Some of the names I've heard include the St. Louis Steamers (old professional team), Gateway United. Keep it simple, keep it recognizable. the interlocking StL is a great thing to start with and incorporating the fleur-di-lis is also a must, IMO. And then they need to come up with a derby name for the games with Sporting KC and please be more creative than the I-70 Derby. Maybe something like the "Show Me Derby".

Anyway, it's happening and the stadium location will be one of the best being just a couple of blocks from Union Station, there should be plenty of opportunity for some good pre- and postgame activities.

MLS passer over StLouis several times because it was judged to be a risk financially due to the strength of the Cardinals attendance. MLS wouldn’t sign off on a privately built stadium because of long term financial concerns. the city twice voting down referendums that would have directly or indirectly funded part of the stadium green lighted other cities. Vancouver and Orlando iirc. The city’s opinion of sports owners was pretty low from the Rams experience so MLS just had bigger priorities — like the South and PNW. Prior to 2008, MLS couldn’t risk going into Saint Louis because of the financial uncertainty of the league. From 2008 to 2017, it was the financial uncertainty of the club. Cincinnati and Chattanooga attendance and marketing models were looked at closely and the ownership group pushing StL finally got their act together. The Rams leaving also helped. It’s an NFL city without an NFL team to compete with. It will be a nice mid market team with 14,000 a night and decent tv numbers.

And you are right about it being a soccer town going back more than a hundred years. The soccerplex where that USL team plays is where I saw my first USMNT WC qualifier game in 1989. Maybe 3500 people there, tops. Tab Ramos scored off a nice combo. They shocked Costa Rica 1-0. I was hooked.

 

[drboobay]

Promotion/relegation would get me interested in pro soccer again. Right now I only follow the USMNT.

 

[HuffyCane]

Promotion/relegation would get me interested in pro soccer again. Right now I only follow the USMNT.

What they are talking about now isn’t really pro-rel. Its 40 teams in two tables of 20 with one TV contract managed by a single entity. You get a large r share of the pie if you are upper table. The unrestrained spending of the top tier and financial consequences of relegation to the bottom table would be minimized.

 

[cmullinsTU]

And you are right about it being a soccer town going back more than a hundred years. The soccerplex where that USL team plays is where I saw my first USMNT WC qualifier game in 1989. Maybe 3500 people there, tops. Tab Ramos scored off a nice combo. They shocked Costa Rica 1-0. I was hooked.

The soccerplex is where my wedding reception was held. Needless to say, I'm a pretty big fan (even if I don't follow the sport as closely as I'd like).

 

[HuffyCane]

Here’s highlights of that 1989 game.

The keeper for the penalty, David Vanole, used to put those little paper American flags with toothpicks for flag poles, you know the kind that diners stick into hamburger buns, all over the inside of the goal area to get the crowd behind the goal going. He got in trouble with Gansler and CONCACAF for that and had to stop doing it. If you look close on this penalty, you’ll see where just before setting up for a shot he planted a desktop sized American flag in the ground. It’s not captured on tape, but he made a big production of making sure the guy taking the kick saw him stake out American territory. The crowd went nuts.

David was benched for Meola and left off the WC roster despite being the starter through qualifying. He was a real Belushi type character. Doing things like eating a large pizza and a couple of beers before the game etc. About half the team threatened to quit, so he was added as a third keeper and made the trip. He only dressed for the Italy game tho, as I recall, and was even more visibly obese than this game. He put toothpick flags behind his ears and wrapped himself in a flag on the bench to the delight and derision of the European media.

He bounced around coaching and had real trouble with weight and drinking. He’s credited with developing Briana Scurry. He died in 2007 in his early forties.

Dino will always be my favorite keeper.

 

[TU_BLA]

so FS1 and ESPN need to do a much better job of slotting their games at regular times where people on the east coast can watch. Last night's game between Portland and Atlanta was a ton of fun to watch. End to end, some fantastic creativity and passing and some stellar GK play. Brad Guzan made an incredible save for ATL that kept a 2-0 lead with 30 to go last night. Both teams played with a ton of pace too. And it got chippy and physical. It was definitely the type of play that is attractive to watch on TV even if you aren't a dedicated fan of either team playing.

Game started at 9pm CST. Just thinking that MLS is not doing itself any favors trying to highlight a game that's on when most people are probably getting ready for bed.

 

[HuffyCane]

The time honored tension of Seattle and Portland wanting to maximize its gate attendance while the rest of the league wants a fixed tv time for east coast viewers.

This is still the best evidence that MLS is no better than League One when some of its biggest teams still need gate receipts to be profitable.

 

[TU_BLA]

The time honored tension of Seattle and Portland wanting to maximize its gate attendance while the rest of the league wants a fixed tv time for east coast viewers.

I'm pretty certain if the game started an hour earlier on a Sunday, Portland and Seattle would still get the same attendance (especially Portland).

 

[HuffyCane]

I'm pretty certain if the game started an hour earlier on a Sunday, Portland and Seattle would still get the same attendance (especially Portland).

Nope. Or so they say. The argument has been going on for years.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I doubt anyone here cares but wanted to pass along anyway the MLS Press Conference in STL to announce the new team will be live on Fox Sports Midwest at 11:30 today.

 

[TU_BLA]

I doubt anyone here cares but wanted to pass along anyway the MLS Press Conference in STL to announce the new team will be live on Fox Sports Midwest at 11:30 today.

I think it's great fro StL. I just hope they pick the right name. Personally it would be great if they could work with Saint Louis FC and make them a "2" team and use the name and crest for the MLS side. Both are fantastic and embody exactly what you want in a name and crest.

BTW, the Roughnecks have also scheduled a press conference for 3:30pm today with reps from USL being present along with Mayor GT Bynum. I would assume the presser will have 2 purposes...1 to introduce the new owner and the 2nd to announce a soccer specific stadium project. Both will be fantastic news for the Roughnecks, Fortuna, and their youth affiliates.

 

[HuffyCane]

It’s an announcement but it’s not a done deal. It’s a marketing gimmick. The ownership group doesn’t have the financing to build the stadium necessary to trigger the option to purchase the franchise. It’s an all female led ownership group, at least on paper, so this is just part of MLS, USSF and SUM’s way of blocking down field on the USWNT lawsuit and marketing attacks. Maybe someone from some bank will give them financing they couldn’t otherwise locate or secure once the public goodwill of a female management team is publicized.

Good to see the Mayor engaged on soccer.

 

[TU_BLA]

USL Announcement: It's an ownership group for Tulsa, but it's all Crafts (JW and Ryan) and part of the Allied Partners coal group.

The Exec VP of USL claims that USL Championship will be one of the top 10 leagues worldwide within 10 years. He also alluded to a few new national sponsors for USL which will be announced soon.

A lot of talking about the community and making Tulsa more of a soccer town and listening to the fans, blah, blah, blah. Changes coming...some happening quickly, some not yet. Putting together a better team, blah blah blah.

No stadium announcement yet.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I think it's great fro StL. I just hope they pick the right name. Personally it would be great if they could work with Saint Louis FC and make them a "2" team and use the name and crest for the MLS side. Both are fantastic and embody exactly what you want in a name and crest.

BTW, the Roughnecks have also scheduled a press conference for 3:30pm today with reps from USL being present along with Mayor GT Bynum. I would assume the presser will have 2 purposes...1 to introduce the new owner and the 2nd to announce a soccer specific stadium project. Both will be fantastic news for the Roughnecks, Fortuna, and their youth affiliates.

It is very likely they’ll take on the FC name. The owner of the USL team is one of the key members of the group getting MLS here.

 

[TU_BLA]

I think it's great fro StL. I just hope they pick the right name. Personally it would be great if they could work with Saint Louis FC and make them a "2" team and use the name and crest for the MLS side. Both are fantastic and embody exactly what you want in a name and crest.

BTW, the Roughnecks have also scheduled a press conference for 3:30pm today with reps from USL being present along with Mayor GT Bynum. I would assume the presser will have 2 purposes...1 to introduce the new owner and the 2nd to announce a soccer specific stadium project. Both will be fantastic news for the Roughnecks, Fortuna, and their youth affiliates.

It is very likely they’ll take on the FC name. The owner of the USL team is one of the key members of the group getting MLS here.

Good to know. It would be good if they just folded the current USL side into the club as a “2” team so they can keep the name and crest. Seriously it’s one of my favorites in USL.

 

[HuffyCane]

The new Houston XFL franchise is called the Roughnecks. You wonder if the Tulsa USL ownership group sold the any claim they might have in naming rights for cash.

 

[TU_BLA]

The new Houston XFL franchise is called the Roughnecks. You wonder if the Tulsa USL ownership group sold the any claim they might have in naming rights for cash.

So there is a pretty substantial rumor that the Roughnecks will be rebranded somehow. I don't know if that means dropping the Roughnecks FC name altogether or if changes just the logo and color scheme. This is supposed to be rolled out in October and will also tie in TSC and the Fortuna Tulsa side of the club as well.

I call it a rumor but it came from Barry Williams in a meeting with the team mgrs for the TSC teams because this rebranding will result in new uniforms for all the kids in the club beginning in January. And this timing is so the new Roughnecks season coincides with it as well. But I will be honest as I've been told that the announcement of the new owners doesn't change anything that's part of realignment of TSC and Fortuna with Roughnecks FC, I am a little bit skeptical as I've seen some chaos inside of TSC with this change and roll over. We'll see as the Roughnecks announce changes coming up and how that affects things down the line.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

The new Houston XFL franchise is called the Roughnecks. You wonder if the Tulsa USL ownership group sold the any claim they might have in naming rights for cash.

I'm surprised no one in XFL went with Coyotes. Guess I'll get on board with the Seattle Dragons. Tons of dragons in Seattle.

 

[TU_BLA]

This weekend was dubbed MLS Rivalry Week. Portland and Seattle went after it at Providence Park. Some bad blood there and the fans didn't make a sound for like the first 10-15 minutes trying to send a message to MLS about the signage crap. The other games ESPN and FS1 touted were Columbus and FC Cincinnati (really bad game), FC Dallas vs Houston (Houston is terrible), and LAFC hosting LA Galaxy in the 2nd leg of El Traffico. El Traffico is what every game promoter for every MLS club should be studying to see if they can replicate it. Besides being a pretty quality game and some bad blood because Vela and Zlatan keep taking shots at each other about who the best player in MLS is, the atmosphere in the stands is reminiscent of a Manchester Darby or the Merseyside, or when Spurs and Arsenal hook up. Loud, coordinated chants the entire time.

Zlatan scored the opener 1:46 into the game on a brilliant build up and a through ball from Pavon. LAFC tied it shortly after and Galaxy scored again to go up 2-1 all by the 16 minute mark. Galaxy added a 3rd to go up 3-1 and just before half-time, LAFC came back with a great goal to pull within 3-2. Vela scored a fantastic goal about 10 minutes into the 2nd half to pull LAFC even. From there LAFC had the better of play but Galaxy GK David Bingham was pretty remarkable (faced something like 20 shots on the night). Ended in a 3-3 draw. TV ratings will probably be awful because the game didn't kick until 9:40 CST.

 

[HuffyCane]

The signage thing is a mess. They made the mistake of letting it go for years. Pulling back will always be a problem.

 

[nevadanatural]

Ok, for those of us who don’t follow religiously what is the signage thing?

 

[HuffyCane]

Ok, for those of us who don’t follow religiously what is the signage thing?

Each team has a supporters group, kind of like the GHC, but they aren’t connected with the team. They are privately run. Some teams have more than one. Most have a deal with the team to buy bulk tickets at discount prices that they then sell to their members at face value. The money made from that venture, in addition to dues revenue, is used, in part, to create cloth banners/signage that celebrates the team, or remembers a big win, taunts the visiting team, says goodbye to a retiring player, etc. Its different each game. The Italian word is tifo. (Tee-fo)

The Pacific Northwest teams have elaborate tifo, sometimes several stories tall over covering an entire section of the stadium. In conjunction with that, MLS has previously allowed team colored flags to be waved. Then they allowed the rainbow flag to be waived to try and boost attendance and sell rainbow themed kit. Some stadiums allowed flags related to the asylum crisis showing support for those claiming lawful status.

Some of the supporters groups are more political than others with several tolerating antifa members waving anti-nazi posters and calls to punch nazis. Others wave a sign that is associated with The Iron Brigade which was historically a militant anti fascist group. In New York, NYCFC has been aware, and took no formal action against, a group of supporters, who claimed to be a formal supporters group, who are white supremacists.

Now that they let it go on a bit, there have been some minor fist fights in the stands. We aren’t talking Milwall away to Leeds or even a Raiders game. Mostly millennial nerds thinking they are fighting, but a few minor injuries. Most of them from falling down, not being punched. MLS is concerned and is trying to pull back.

Regardless of their views, I condemn them both. I go to the game to get away from politics and the dumbest thing in the world is getting into a fist fight over American soccer, which is what many of these political signs are designed to provoke.

 

[ctt8410]

The problem is that atmosphere is the biggest selling point MLS has. People pay to be a part of that experience. And Supporter's groups are the heart of that atmosphere. The tifos, drums, songs, smoke all come from groups like Timbers Army. So it's not as easy as saying they should just shut it all down.

You live with the f-bombs from the Reynolds Rowdies because they give you a raucous student section. Rap their knuckles over it one too many times and they'll just stop bothering to show up.

 

[HuffyCane]

The problem is that atmosphere is the biggest selling point MLS has. People pay to be a part of that experience. And Supporter's groups are the heart of that atmosphere. The tifos, drums, songs, smoke all come from groups like Timbers Army. So it's not as easy as saying they should just shut it all down.

You live with the f-bombs from the Reynolds Rowdies because they give you a raucous student section. Rap their knuckles over it one too many times and they'll just stop bothering to show up.

Which is what they did last weekend. They went to the game and didn’t say a word for the first ten minutes. Then went back to normal to show the contrast and eff with the TV broadcasts.

The problem isn’t that MLS wants to shut it all down, the problem is that MLS wants it sanitized and limited to helping it make money.

The people in charge of policing it, the supporters group leadership and game day capos, for the most part, agree but are personally inclined to distrust government or corporate oversight of any kind that they don’t control. But they are more than ready to shut down anything they personally find objectionable, which has led to situations where the leadership is a member of, or personally sympathetic to, and in one case at least, afraid of, antifa. So there is viewpoint bias.

So the groups have banned all kinds of things on grounds of safety and other convoluted reasons. In one case, all red hats in their section the grounds that they are not team colors but you can hold up a sign that is a direct call for violence. If this doesn’t cause a riot, it’s gonna get MLS sued. They don’t want to spend millions in legal fees on nerds.

Antifa naturally loves the attention.

 

[TU_BLA]

Which is what they did last weekend. They went to the game and didn’t say a word for the first ten minutes. Then went back to normal to show the contrast and eff with the TV broadcasts.

The problem isn’t that MLS wants to shut it all down, the problem is that MLS wants it sanitized and limited to helping it make money.

The people in charge of policing it, the supporters group leadership and game day capos, for the most part, agree but are personally inclined to distrust government or corporate oversight of any kind that they don’t control. But they are more than ready to shut down anything they personally find objectionable, which has led to situations where the leadership is a member of, or personally sympathetic to, and in one case at least, afraid of, antifa. So there is viewpoint bias.

So the groups have banned all kinds of things on grounds of safety and other convoluted reasons. In one case, all red hats in their section the grounds that they are not team colors but you can hold up a sign that is a direct call for violence. If this doesn’t cause a riot, it’s gonna get MLS sued. They don’t want to spend millions in legal fees on nerds.

Antifa naturally loves the attention.

The kerfuffle actually started with the whole NYCFC thing when the supporter group with avowed neo-Nazis were called out and if my memory is correct, NYCFC pulled their supporter group status which started a free-speech debate which then started the whole, why are we not allowed but you allow the other side crap. MLS got involved and tried to make it a no political signage thing and then probably took it too far when people started bringing signs to the effect of "Love > Hate" and they were told it fell outside the signage policy of MLS. They also banned signs that had a 'no racism" message...which is sort of ironic and hilarious because FIFA supports a global end to racism effort in all leagues.

And to counter your Antifa loves attention...so do the neo-Nazis who proudly parade around with their AR-15s looking to intimidate others into not going to events. It goes both ways and both are way too extreme in their messaging.

 

[HuffyCane]

The kerfuffle actually started with the whole NYCFC thing when the supporter group with avowed neo-Nazis were called out and if my memory is correct, NYCFC pulled their supporter group status which started a free-speech debate which then started the whole, why are we not allowed but you allow the other side crap. MLS got involved and tried to make it a no political signage thing and then probably took it too far when people started bringing signs to the effect of "Love > Hate" and they were told it fell outside the signage policy of MLS. They also banned signs that had a 'no racism" message...which is sort of ironic and hilarious because FIFA supports a global end to racism effort in all leagues.

And to counter your Antifa loves attention...so do the neo-Nazis who proudly parade around with their AR-15s looking to intimidate others into not going to events. It goes both ways and both are way too extreme in their messaging.

Yep. On the first paragraph. USSF has a similar program that Donovan paid(pays?) for.

I’m certainly not aware of AR-15 carrying individuals intimidating people from attending soccer games. You have a link for that?

 

[TU_BLA]

Yep. On the first paragraph. USSF has a similar program that Donovan paid(pays?) for.

I’m certainly not aware of AR-15 carrying individuals intimidating people from attending soccer games. You have a link for that?

The last part is not tied to soccer as I didn't take your antifa comment to necessarily be tied to soccer.

 

[ctt8410]

It was 33 minutes.

And I still say this is Streisand effect in action. 99% of people had no idea where this symbol originated until it was banned. They just thought it looked cool.

 

[HuffyCane]

The last part is not tied to soccer as I didn't take your antifa comment to necessarily be tied to soccer.

Yes. All my comments were tied to antifa activity associated with supporters groups in Seattle and Portland.

 

[TU_BLA]

Yes. All my comments were tied to antifa activity associated with supporters groups in Seattle and Portland.

Damn hippies!

 

[HuffyCane]

Damn hippies!

Pretty much. And if you work the twitters, the group being asked to remove the Love>Hate sign were all masked and were holding up other signs that directly or indirectly called for violent action amongst the people familiar with that imagery. (The Iron Front). Naturally, the public disinformation campaign takes over and only Love > Hate makes the news.

 

[TU_BLA]

It was 33 minutes.

And I still say this is Streisand effect in action. 99% of people had no idea where this symbol originated until it was banned. They just thought it looked cool.

Yep, I really don't have any idea what that sign means