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Men's Golf Restart Thread

Tulsa_

I.T.S. Position Coach
Gold Member
Dec 4, 2003
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I hear that Carson has stated that Men's Golf will return.

Let's keep a thread alive to keep up the positive pressure and report any progress, rumors or other juicy info.

I will personally write a small check if this is true.

I was a walk on in the early 80's and that opportunity (making the team in an open tryout) was a key memory in my TU experience. It did not matter that I was on the end of the bench but it mattered a lot to me that a self taught HS tennis player that loved golf could get the chance to have a really good tryout round and make a D1 team, even though we were not world beaters... (we were middle of the pack MVC).
 
I hear that Carson has stated that Men's Golf will return.

Let's keep a thread alive to keep up the positive pressure and report any progress, rumors or other juicy info.

I will personally write a small check if this is true.

I was a walk on in the early 80's and that opportunity (making the team in an open tryout) was a key memory in my TU experience. It did not matter that I was on the end of the bench but it mattered a lot to me that a self taught HS tennis player that loved golf could get the chance to have a really good tryout round and make a D1 team, even though we were not world beaters... (we were middle of the pack MVC).
Has a timeline been established? Gotta have a coach for recruiting, organization and facility contacts. Home many schollys does the NCAA allow for men’s golf.
 
Has a timeline been established? Gotta have a coach for recruiting, organization and facility contacts. Home many schollys does the NCAA allow for men’s golf.
It’s an equivalency sport. It’s 4.5 scholarships total that is typically split up. Unless something has changed recently.

What that typically means is that you won’t receive more than half a scholarship and some will receive a token amount. Men’s Golf, on some campuses, I have no idea how’s its handled at TU, is a method to generate academic tuition dollars by providing an inducement to enroll by offering a nominal discount called a
athletics scholarship.

As such, men’s golf as a sport is highly controversial in some circles. Some view it as a “pay to play” sport that exploits parents dreams of their kid making the PGA. They jump on the chance to pay tens of thousands for their son to play golf at the FBS with little or no future in the pro ranks when the child might attend elsewhere at little or no cost if they shopped around. Others view athletics scholarships as a method to encourage social mobility, particularly amongst people of color. Partial funding of golf is viewed as wasting those dollars because so few POC students pursue golf.

Ive always been skeptical of the reasons given for cutting the sport at TU - we supposedly cut it due to austerity needed across the department. Athletics was told to offer up $500,000 goes the story and Gragg chose to submit the entire budget of mens golf at $520,000, rather force football, basketball, soccer and rowing to take haircuts.

To add it back means there’s a combination of booster support and projected tuition revenue justifying bringing it back. A series of phone calls to the right people formerly connected to our golf program could have solved that tension in 2016. Which begs the question of why that wasn’t done in the first place.

In my view, it’s more likely than not, it was an attempt to attach TU to a trend amongst Ivy League and Ivy adjacent schools who were cutting athletics and mens golf in particular for reasons other than financial hardship. Stanford recently settled litigation related to this debate and will not be cutting sports it claimed it needed to cut due to financial loss due to the pandemic — which is laughable at that institution.

University athletics have many benefits beyond educating young people, providing a source of campus cohesion, entertaining the community and raising money.

For schools like TU, struggling for recognition amongst OU, OSU, SMU and Tulane, success in athletics and upward mobility of the athletic department is a pillar of the integrity of the institution. It makes us a “real university.”

While adding mens golf back will aid in that effort, the inept public handling of necessary and unnecessary cuts to the program has set the athletic department back decades and could have pigeon holed us back into a new Conference USA of marginal value. The University’s reputation, in some circles, was put back even farther and might never recover.

We need to be more vigilant and guard against the convenient decisions of the misguided.
 
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It’s an equivalency sport. It’s 4.5 scholarships total that is typically split up. Unless something has changed recently.

What that typically means is that you won’t receive more than half a scholarship and some will receive a token amount. Men’s Golf, on some campuses, I have no idea how’s its handled at TU, is a method to generate academic tuition dollars by providing an inducement to enroll by offering a nominal discount called a
athletics scholarship.

As such, men’s golf as a sport is highly controversial in some circles. Some view it as a “pay to play” sport that exploits parents dreams of their kid making the PGA. They jump on the chance to pay tens of thousands for their son to play golf at the FBS with little or no future in the pro ranks when the child might attend elsewhere at little or no cost if they shopped around. Others view athletics scholarships as a method to encourage social mobility, particularly amongst people of color. Partial funding of golf is viewed as wasting those dollars because so few POC students pursue golf.

Ive always been skeptical of the reasons given for cutting the sport at TU - we supposedly cut it due to austerity needed across the department. Athletics was told to offer up $500,000 goes the story and Gragg chose to submit the entire budget of mens golf at $520,000, rather force football, basketball, soccer and rowing to take haircuts.

To add it back means there’s a combination of booster support and projected tuition revenue justifying bringing it back. A series of phone calls to the right people formerly connected to our golf program could have solved that tension in 2016. Which begs the question of why that wasn’t done in the first place.

In my view, it’s more likely than not, it was an attempt to attach TU to a trend amongst Ivy League and Ivy adjacent schools who were cutting athletics and mens golf in particular for reasons other than financial hardship. Stanford recently settled litigation related to this debate and will not be cutting sports it claimed it needed to cut due to financial loss due to the pandemic — which is laughable at that institution.

University athletics have many benefits beyond educating young people, providing a source of campus cohesion, entertaining the community and raising money.

For schools like TU, struggling for recognition amongst OU, OSU, SMU and Tulane, success in athletics and upward mobility of the athletic department is a pillar of the integrity of the institution. It makes us a “real university.”

While adding mens golf back will aid in that effort, the inept public handling of necessary and unnecessary cuts to the program has set the athletic department back decades and could have pigeon holed us back into a new Conference USA of marginal value. The University’s reputation, in some circles, was put back even farther and might never recover.

We need to be more vigilant and guard against the convenient decisions of the misguided.
Hank Haney could have funded the golf team by himself if the University really wanted to keep the program.
 
Hank Haney could have funded the golf team by himself if the University really wanted to keep the program.
I dont think it’s appropriate to discuss individual boosters in this forum unless they have voluntarily inserted themselves into fundraising or taken a public position on a project. IOW people like Boone Pickens.

Talking about what people give or don’t give only hurts the university. The school has enough trouble raising money without having a bunch of doods in chat rooms and message boards discussing what somebody gave or didn’t give. How rich they are or how tight they are.
 
I dont think it’s appropriate to discuss individual boosters in this forum unless they have voluntarily inserted themselves into fundraising or taken a public position on a project. IOW people like Boone Pickens.

Talking about what people give or don’t give only hurts the university. The school has enough trouble raising money without having a bunch of doods in chat rooms and message boards discussing what somebody gave or didn’t give. How rich they are or how tight they are.
I wasn't calling him out and I have no idea what or if he gives. It was more a point that TU can call one of the world's best golf instructors an alum, TU should be involving that resource as an expert on how to restart the program and what it needs to be a top notch program again. Really, TU has had a historical lack of self awareness in understanding how to keep alumni involved...and it's almost like TU waits until the alum or donor approaches them first. This may or may not be happening but I do know that the only engagement I've experienced from the alum council, development, or GHC has been passive.
 
Great points made by all. Gragg was
I wasn't calling him out and I have no idea what or if he gives. It was more a point that TU can call one of the world's best golf instructors an alum, TU should be involving that resource as an expert on how to restart the program and what it needs to be a top notch program again. Really, TU has had a historical lack of self awareness in understanding how to keep alumni involved...and it's almost like TU waits until the alum or donor approaches them first. This may or may not be happening but I do know that the only engagement I've experienced from the alum council, development, or GHC has been passive.
Gragg was not personable to most of us and was an inept administrator. I would tell him that to his face and would probably be called a racist, which I am anything but. We all know the sport should have never been cut because all he had to do is to reach out to alums, but maybe the University wouldn't allow that. Baseball on the other hand is significantly more expensive. I think NCAA allows something like 11.3 scholarships. That's for about a 25 man squad and probably 3 coaches, and who knows home many others. Probably $800K minimum without the facility.
 
I’ve always thought mens golf presents a potential high value bang for your buck considering you’re only adding 4.5 ships per year. Rickie Fowler is probably OSU’s most visible alum. Hopefully TU golfers can have success and become an ambassador for the school much like Rickie.
 
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I’ve always thought mens golf presents a potential high value bang for your buck considering you’re only adding 4.5 ships per year. Rickie Fowler is probably OSU’s most visible alum. Hopefully TU golfers can have success and become an ambassador for the school much like Rickie.
OSU is a little different than TU is when it comes to golf. They have one of the most storied histories in terms of men's golf. Just look at the current crop of players on the PGA Tour who played at OSU. Tway, Fowler, Hovland, Wolfe, Morgan Hoffman, Charles Howell III, Uihlein. Go back and you've got another Tway, Scott Verplank, Willie Wood, Mahan, Bob May (of the famous PGA Championship Battle at Valhalla). TU has a few that have made a name on tour but not like OkState.

TU was using The Patriot as their practice facility before shuttering the program. There was a connection with the program there. I don't know if that connection would still be there if the program comes back. Women used to use TCC a lot but not sure if they still do.
 
OSU is a little different than TU is when it comes to golf. They have one of the most storied histories in terms of men's golf. Just look at the current crop of players on the PGA Tour who played at OSU. Tway, Fowler, Hovland, Wolfe, Morgan Hoffman, Charles Howell III, Uihlein. Go back and you've got another Tway, Scott Verplank, Willie Wood, Mahan, Bob May (of the famous PGA Championship Battle at Valhalla). TU has a few that have made a name on tour but not like OkState.

TU was using The Patriot as their practice facility before shuttering the program. There was a connection with the program there. I don't know if that connection would still be there if the program comes back. Women used to use TCC a lot but not sure if they still do.
No doubt. It just takes one golfer though who succeeds on the PGA tour and is willing to carry the TU banner. I can dream :)
 
I wasn't calling him out and I have no idea what or if he gives. It was more a point that TU can call one of the world's best golf instructors an alum, TU should be involving that resource as an expert on how to restart the program and what it needs to be a top notch program again. Really, TU has had a historical lack of self awareness in understanding how to keep alumni involved...and it's almost like TU waits until the alum or donor approaches them first. This may or may not be happening but I do know that the only engagement I've experienced from the alum council, development, or GHC has been passive.
Well, since the school named him a Distinguished Alumni in 2013 placing him alongside many other great alumni in the business and sports world who finished at TU, I think it’s pretty safe to say that you have no idea what you are talking about on this particular individual.

Let’s move on. But please stop suggesting by name who would give because it also implies who gave and who didn’t, who would have given but wasn’t asked, and who has money and who doesn’t. You don’t know and it doesn’t help the school. And they do read this board. And so do people who give a lot of money, and might not in the future, if people who admit they don’t know what they are talking about insist on speculating about what they gave or didn’t by name.
 
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