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Kansas beats Oklahoma

drboobay

I.T.S. University President
Gold Member
Dec 4, 2003
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For the Panasonic battery plant.

The only good news is that Stitt cannot claim this as a victory for his supposed economic prowess. I can't stand him - reminds me of an overconfident, arrogant bully who is devoid of nuance.
 
Kansas taxpayers are picking up $1B of the cost of the plant. Oklahoma did not come close to that number. Not sure what the correct move was here. Seems like a big price tag for taxpayers to foot for a plant which employs 4000 people.
 
Kansas taxpayers are picking up $1B of the cost of the plant. Oklahoma did not come close to that number. Not sure what the correct move was here. Seems like a big price tag for taxpayers to foot for a plant which employs 4000 people.
It would probably take 10 years to recover that cost in taxes and other benefits. That's a long time to invest that much before making a profit. If it brought in a decent amount of subsidiary business maybe... Are they getting any substantial tax breaks on top of that $1B investment by the state of Kansas? I'm assuming they got tax breaks when I say it would take 10 years.
 
It would probably take 10 years to recover that cost in taxes and other benefits. That's a long time to invest that much before making a profit. If it brought in a decent amount of subsidiary business maybe... Are they getting any substantial tax breaks on top of that $1B investment by the state of Kansas? I'm assuming they got tax breaks when I say it would take 10 years.
KC Star article indicated total cost to Kansas would be near $1.3M after all incentives and tax breaks. Looks like Oklahoma offered just under $700M. Would have liked to have seen it built in Pryor.
 
KC Star article indicated total cost to Kansas would be near $1.3M after all incentives and tax breaks. Looks like Oklahoma offered just under $700M. Would have liked to have seen it built in Pryor.
Yes. I would have prefered to have the plant and live with Stitt's bragging about it.
 
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KC Star article indicated total cost to Kansas would be near $1.3M after all incentives and tax breaks. Looks like Oklahoma offered just under $700M. Would have liked to have seen it built in Pryor.
That won't cut the break even time much shorter. Only thing that would help is hiring Kansas/Oklahoma people to build the facility. I'm assuming they will have their own non local design on the building.
 
That won't cut the break even time much shorter. Only thing that would help is hiring Kansas/Oklahoma people to build the facility. I'm assuming they will have their own non local design on the building.
Sorry….that’s $1.3B total cost after incentives not million. Fat fingers.
 
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Incentives only pay off if the skilled labor force is kept intact. You have to have three or more similar industries in close proximity to hold the tax base together to make it pay off in the long run. Otherwise, people switch jobs and move out before the tax revenue they generate exceeds their share of the incentive. Similarly, companies want to poach high performers from their competitor next door. This is how Austin was built. In all other cases, it’s a boondoggle at best, graft at the worst and often both.
 
Incentives only pay off if the skilled labor force is kept intact. You have to have three or more similar industries in close proximity to hold the tax base together to make it pay off in the long run. Otherwise, people switch jobs and move out before the tax revenue they generate exceeds their share of the incentive. Similarly, companies want to poach high performers from their competitor next door. This is how Austin was built. In all other cases, it’s a boondoggle at best, graft at the worst and often both.
Well, supposedly we are the new Cleveland - primarily a blue collar manufacturing city. So you would think that would be attractive. Perhaps there were concerns about pure #s of bodies available considering the workforce within an hour of Pryor.
 
Well, supposedly we are the new Cleveland - primarily a blue collar manufacturing city. So you would think that would be attractive. Perhaps there were concerns about pure #s of bodies available considering the workforce within an hour of Pryor.

Can't say I've heard that comparison made before. The one I always hear is "Tulsa will eventually be the new Austin." I can kind of see it with the arts and music scene Tulsa has, but idk.
 
Can't say I've heard that comparison made before. The one I always hear is "Tulsa will eventually be the new Austin." I can kind of see it with the arts and music scene Tulsa has, but idk.
That would be better.

But economically we have lost a lot of corporate jobs and gained more in manufacturing and services the past 15 years or so. I have heard and read that comparison and that we are now more of a blue collar city economically. Not delighted about it.
 
Kansas taxpayers are picking up $1B of the cost of the plant. Oklahoma did not come close to that number. Not sure what the correct move was here. Seems like a big price tag for taxpayers to foot for a plant which employs 4000 people.
The plant will likely also pay a lot into local and state taxes. Not saying that justifies the price tag, just that it’s where the government really decides how much of the bill they’re willing to foot.
 
I figure that KS's current stand on Roe played a part... that and cheap scotch..
 
Kansas is quite conservative but not run by the wackos.

Oklahoma on the otherhand...run by the wackos.
Kansas much like Nebraska has serious socialist/populist leanings but not so socialist as to favor the current Democratic party...
 
Kansas much like Nebraska has serious socialist/populist leanings but not so socialist as to favor the current Democratic party...
They also gave us folks like Bob Dole, on the positive side. And Mike Pompeo on the negative side. Not sure how socialist they are anymore. Probably not so much.
 
They also gave us folks like Bob Dole, on the positive side. And Mike Pompeo on the negative side. Not sure how socialist they are anymore. Probably not so much.
Never thought much of Bob Dole.. he lacked the spine needed to stand up to people like the Clintons.. much like McCain, he was too worried about what the press thought of him.
 
Never thought much of Bob Dole.. he lacked the spine needed to stand up to people like the Clintons.. much like McCain, he was too worried about what the press thought of him.
Dole and McCain and George HW Bush are my favorite Republicans and the reason I stayed in that party my adult life until the rise of Trump in 2016. Voted about 50% Republican and 50% Democrat most of my life. Now days it is hard to vote for Republicans because they are too radical and, generally, arseholes.
 
Dole and McCain and George HW Bush are my favorite Republicans and the reason I stayed in that party my adult life until the rise of Trump in 2016. Voted about 50% Republican and 50% Democrat most of my life. Now days it is hard to vote for Republicans because they are too radical and, generally, arseholes.
One exception is GT Bynum. I keep voting for him. He seems level headed.

To be clear, I don't like ideologues and bullies in leadership, including political leadership. So I could never vote for Bernie Sanders either. I prefer non ideological problem solvers and from my first vote, picked person over party every time. Every time.
 
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Dole and McCain and George HW Bush are my favorite Republicans and the reason I stayed in that party my adult life until the rise of Trump in 2016. Voted about 50% Republican and 50% Democrat most of my life. Now days it is hard to vote for Republicans because they are too radical and, generally, arseholes.
D, Mc, and HW are the country club Republicans that led to the rise of the current radicals in the party. Had those men actually been able to rally the base, they would have been elected.

The last time I cast a presidential ballot was HW's first term. His wishy washiness led me to sit out in '92 and the quality of candidates since havent inspired me... i check every other box. But not that one. They ran as conservatives but acted otherwise once elected.. I would rather fight the devil outside my tent than have one sitting at my table calling me "friend".
 
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D, Mc, and HW are the country club Republicans that led to the rise of the current radicals in the party. Had those men actually been able to rally the base, they would have been elected.

The last time I cast a presidential ballot was HW's first term. His wishy washiness led me to sit out in '92 and the quality of candidates since havent inspired me... i check every other box. But not that one. They ran as conservatives but acted otherwise once elected.. I would rather fight the devil outside my tent than have one sitting at my tanle calling me "friend".
You think you have ethics and standards. You are an odd bird. Hollow.

Because there is not a good choice, does not mean the choice is insignificant.

August 19, 1934
 
Dole and McCain and George HW Bush are my favorite Republicans and the reason I stayed in that party my adult life until the rise of Trump in 2016. Voted about 50% Republican and 50% Democrat most of my life. Now days it is hard to vote for Republicans because they are too radical and, generally, arseholes.
I left the GOP over the invasion of Iraq. The arrival of Trump and Trumpism sealed the deal. I have good conservative friends and family members around the country, who used to say that they didn't like Trump personally but they approved of his policies. Now we just avoid talking national politics to keep our friendships going. Discussions about local politics and issues are fine and are where we find a lot of common ground.

Every once in a while someone posts on the board that not all Republicans are Trumpists which is a good reminder. Each side seems to see each other solely in terms of the most extreme possible positions the opposing party can take which shuts down conversation. We need more RINOs and more moderate Democrats or we'll fulfill the Lincoln's prophecy about "A house divided against itself cannot stand."
 
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I understand leaving the GOP. Joining the CCP was an odd choice though
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone who not only switches positions on practically every issue but blindly follows a political parties positions like WATU. Not only follows them but starts subscribing to media/internet sites which only provides as an echo chamber for said positions.

I was also against the invasion of Iraq and stated the same on this site at the time. Didn’t turn me into a Vox or Mother Jones follower. …and yes, i tend to look down on people who who simply repeat every talking point of a certain political party.
 
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Personally I think I've been consistent regardless of how I was registered. Being registered as a Republican never influenced my vote; I'd never consider party line voting. And as an Independent now, I would vote for the right kinds of Republicans - level headed, outcome focused, not too dug in on ideology. Not too wedded to the Trump cult.

Had some hopes for Stitt but his antagonism to the tribes, gun extremism, extreme position on Covid, hesitancy to deal with the Epic fiasco earlier and more firmly, antagonism to public schools, and inability to close the deal on big economic deals leaves me with "no way." He does not seem to be up to the job either intellectually, interpersonally or ethically.
 
This is the kind of thing that gets me excited about supporting a politician.

Thanks for posting that. It is interesting that we are a part of this. I'll have to look into the data they are looking at, and how they are coming to their conclusions.
 
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