I'll say it.

[TUMe]

Sheriff Glanz should resign.

I don't know the Sheriff and I am unable to evaluate the job he has done. Mistakes happen. But there are some mistakes that should happen only once. This one is aggravated by many circumstances including the qualifications of the reserve officer, the fact that there had to be waivers, and that the Sheriff's Department has been seen to be dodging issues.

Whether the reserve officer is guilty of manslaughter is a question for a court and jury. But the Sheriffs Department is accountable administratively and politically. I don't mean "politically" in the Republican/Democrat sense, I mean answerable to the body politic. We all have opinions of scandals in Washington or elsewhere but can we ignore one a few miles from where we live.

All the national media have had the word "Tulsa" in large type. And not about anything good. It goes to the image that a lot of people have when they hear the name.

The military used to have a charge of "Failure to Insure." I don't know if they still do, but it implied that things happen when someone doesn't insure that they do not. We often also hear "To Protect and Serve." The Sheriff's Department says that the Sheriff can waive any procedure. If the Sheriff waived or knew of a waiver to give this person...a large donor...a badge and a gun, then he was weak on "Protect" and perhaps guilty of "Failure to Insure" in, at least, his responsibility to Tulsa County.

 

[rabidTU]

Yes, govt corruption from officials that are not accountable (enough) for what they do or what they put in place. Power "does" corrupt. How long has Glanz been in the job anyway? There ought to be a shelf life on these positions. But I'll bet this has been going on for a long time even before Glanz was there. Also, from what I hear, Shaquille O'Neal is a reserve law officer as is Steven Segal. It gives them somethin to do since their acting careers have dried up.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

It's becoming more and more clear that Bates is the least of the problems with this organization.

 

[Chris Harmon]

Regardless of all this other stuff, and I certainly feel for the Harris family for losing a loved one, but Eric Harris was trying to sell illegal guns to undercover cops and then ran from the cops. If he wasn't trying to do something illegal -- and didn't run from police -- NONE of this would have happened. That's where I place the blame...on Harris himself.

 

[TUMe]

Yes and No. Of course, Harris had a part in his demise.

However, that is no excuse to shoot him. [On Gunsmoke, Matt sometimes shot someone who needed killin', those days are gone.] I'm not going to rehash all of the facts, most of us know them. But as stated above, the Sheriff's department came out looking pretty questionable to say the least. The Sheriff has had 27 years to run it.

 

[noble cane]

I still cant get past the fact that the sheriff's name is "Glanz"...

 

[Chris Harmon]

Yes and No. Of course, Harris had a part in his demise.

Harris controlled his own actions. He could have chosen to not be a criminal, or he could have chosen not to run once he was caught being a criminal. Either of those choices would have resulted in him being alive.

At that point, there is no shooting. So whether or not there is an excuse to shoot him doesn't exist at that point. That's where I'm coming from.

I know that he shouldn't have been shot, and it apparently wasn't the officer's intention to shoot him. But that would all be moot if Harris had made better choices. I can't believe there is no focus on that in the media...it's common sense.

 

[Chris Harmon]

I still cant get past the fact that the sheriff's name is "Glanz"...

Nice avatar, noble.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

What happened to Harris is one issue. The disaster that is the Sherriff's dept and the deputy program is another entirely that merits its own discussion and criticism. The Harris incident not happening or going down differently doesn't correct any of the atrocities happening there. You can applaud that guy being dead and still admit there are some serious institutional problems.

 

[Chris Harmon]

What happened to Harris is one issue. The disaster that is the Sherriff's dept and the deputy program is another entirely that merits its own discussion and criticism. The Harris incident not happening or going down differently doesn't correct any of the atrocities happening there. You can applaud that guy being dead and still admit there are some serious institutional problems.

Yikes! Not sure how anything I said could be construed as applauding someone being dead. I agree that the Sherriff's dept stuff is a separate issue, which is why I said "Regardless of this other stuff..." I didn't comment about any of that. I'm sure there are issues in the Sherriff's department. I expect there are bad issues in every Sherriff's department.

 

[TUMe]

Harris controlled his own actions. He could have chosen to not be a criminal, or he could have chosen not to run once he was caught being a criminal. Either of those choices would have resulted in him being alive.

At that point, there is no shooting. So whether or not there is an excuse to shoot him doesn't exist at that point. That's where I'm coming from.

I know that he shouldn't have been shot, and it apparently wasn't the officer's intention to shoot him. But that would all be moot if Harris had made better choices. I can't believe there is no focus on that in the media...it's common sense.

Yes, all of that is a given. But the police are supposed to be the professionals. That means only using the force needed to control the situation. There were three officers present, yet it was the reserve officer who decided to taser. Odd. Then got the gun by accident instead of the taser.

The officer was a big donor and there were waivers and according to the World for documentation of training...if it happened at all. He had been a policemen 52 years ago for one year.

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. If he needed to be shot, then I understand. But he didn't need to be shot by mistake. I'm not sure he needed to be tasered but I wasn't there. And the Sheriffs Department admits an officer said "F... your breath."

There is something rotten in the State of Denmark and it has brought huge negative attention to Tulsa.

Actions have consequences. That applies to Harris and to Bates and to Glanz. You can't shoot someone and say I'm sorry. You can't waive requirements for an officer and not be held accountable when he has an oops.

 

[Chris Harmon]

I don't disagree with any of that. It just seems lost on many people that we wouldn't be talking about any of this if Harris had made better decisions. It doesn't excuse the actions of the Sherriff's office or mean they aren't corrupt.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

We also wouldn't be talking about it if an unqualified, incompetent volunteer had pulled a taser.

Not sure what the point is. The corruption is out in the light either way.

 

[Chris Harmon]

We also wouldn't be talking about it if an unqualified, incompetent volunteer had pulled a taser.

Agreed, but like I said, that doesn't happen if Harris makes appropriate decisions. It doesn't even get to that point. The corruption or problems in the Sherriff's office were there before this happened and need to be dealt with, it's unfortunate that it took something like this for it to be focused on. But when it comes to Harris, he would still be alive if he wasn't selling illegal guns.

 

[noble cane]

Nice avatar, noble.

thanks.. new board.. new look..

 

[old_goat_23]

This is a problem specific to one volunteer/donor and one situation. The situation should be corrected (and never should have occurred) but it is absolutely unfair and inaccurate to paint the entire department as either corrupt or incompetent due to this event.

I know some of the guys with the TCSO SOTs and they are all competent and professional. Many are former military with combat time (which is how they end up as a diver, sniper or door kicker). Do you honestly think that any of the professionals involved wanted an insurance executive on their team? Does anyone think that the rank and file enjoyed the thought of a marginally trained volunteer being their backup in a gunfight?

I agree that Glanz should go. No way you put a 78 year old untrained guy on any task force or SOT (special operations team). No way you take the risk that your donor/buddy will kill a citizen or another officer. The auxiliary program should be limited to riding around in a cruiser or helping with security at a concert. Just don't try to throw the whole department under the same bus.

Thanks.

 

[TUMe]

I like most people, know a few people in the Sheriff's Department. By no means did I intend to imply that most individual officers are unprofessional. In fact the ones I know seem impressive.

The Department seems to have been, in several incidences, ADMINISTERED poorly. This is not uncommon when a organization is headed by the same person for decades with no checks and balances.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Well since you brought it up, other personnel that had issues with the way that task force operated and the sheriff himself but just went about their business with no objection? That's not ideal either.

The planned operations for the sting that morning according to dept spokesmen were not good. And frankly, they are fortunate Harris was the only casualty.

 

[jesterondirt]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I don't know of one single person in my entire life that has ever been "harassed" by a police officer that wasn't in some way shape or form involved in some type of illegal activity.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I don't know of one single person in my entire life that has ever been "harassed" by a police officer that wasn't in some way shape or form involved in some type of illegal activity.

Yep.

While there are bad cops like there are jackasses in any profession; lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, janitors, it doesn't make it right to make these people that are having issues with the cops the victims.

Don't tell me dude didn't realize that selling drugs, guns, and running from the police might end up with him getting killed by his customers, competitors, or the cops. He get's shot by Bugsy the Gunman and the opinion is, "oh well. saved us the bullet/money/jail space/etc."

Ferguson jackhole... can you tell me this 'nice kid thinking about going to technical school' (yea, I thought about playing in the NFL once, that didn't make a good football player) didn't realize that stealing, bullying a store owner, beating the of a guy, punching a cop, running from the cops, or running at the cops wouldn't eventually get him killed?

I hate judgement being passed on 2 minutes of video that occur or is shown AFTER the initial incident or confrontation occurred or the race card being played to victimize the criminal.

Now, Glanz should be fired or resign, wannabe sheriff should be charged with murder and in no way been allowed to leave the country, and both them and likely others should probably be charged with some sort of fraud for fake certifications.


But, at the end of the day, don't sell drugs or guns, don't steal, don't gangbang, don't beat the out of the people for the hell of it, don't run from the cops. and guess what... you probably won't have a bad experience with a cop.

 

[lawpoke87]

Yep.

While there are bad cops like there are jackasses in any profession; lawyers, doctors, teachers, accountants, janitors, it doesn't make it right to make these people that are having issues with the cops the victims.

Don't tell me dude didn't realize that selling drugs, guns, and running from the police might end up with him getting killed by his customers, competitors, or the cops. He get's shot by Bugsy the Gunman and the opinion is, "oh well. saved us the bullet/money/jail space/etc."

Ferguson jackhole... can you tell me this 'nice kid thinking about going to technical school' (yea, I thought about playing in the NFL once, that didn't make a good football player) didn't realize that stealing, bullying a store owner, beating the of a guy, punching a cop, running from the cops, or running at the cops wouldn't eventually get him killed?

I hate judgement being passed on 2 minutes of video that occur or is shown AFTER the initial incident or confrontation occurred or the race card being played to victimize the criminal.

Now, Glanz should be fired or resign, wannabe sheriff should be charged with murder and in no way been allowed to leave the country, and both them and likely others should probably be charged with some sort of fraud for fake certifications.


But, at the end of the day, don't sell drugs or guns, don't steal, don't gangbang, don't beat the out of the people for the hell of it, don't run from the cops. and guess what... you probably won't have a bad experience with a cop.

I blame the Sheriff's Office as much if not more than the old guy playing Barney Fife. The Sheriff's Office chose to place an undertrained senior citizen in a life and death situation AND gave him a loaded gun to use at his discretion. What could possibly go wrong...right?

Yes, the dead guy is a career criminal. He was selling illegal guns while wearing a church ministries cap. He ran from the cops when caught. Still....You can't arm 70 something untrained seniors and expect good police work.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

I agree, poke. I feel bad that Bates is the fall guy here.

More info coming out today that concerns about Bates date back to when he first started working with the dept.

Glanz has to go.

 

[Weatherdemon]

I blame the Sheriff's Office as much if not more than the old guy playing Barney Fife. The Sheriff's Office chose to place an undertrained senior citizen in a life and death situation AND gave him a loaded gun to use at his discretion. What could possibly go wrong...right?

Yes, the dead guy is a career criminal. He was selling illegal guns while wearing a church ministries cap. He ran from the cops when caught. Still....You can't arm 70 something untrained seniors and expect good police work.

Agree 100%.

 

[TUMe]

It is becoming painfully obvious that this isn't going away. it's no longer about Bates or Harris. It is about how the Sheriff's Department is being ran. Batesgate is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Chris Harmon]

It is becoming painfully obvious that this isn't going away. it's no longer about Bates or Harris. It is about how the Sheriff's Department is being ran. Batesgate is just the tip of the iceberg.

It was discussed on CBS This Morning today, and I think Clark Brewster was supposed to be interviewed on the Today show as well.

It's not doing our national perception any favors.

 

[eastcane]

It's over, or will be shortly, for Glanz. Branstetter and Goforth already penning for The Frontier, could be an interesting journal.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...stroy-the-Tulsa-Sheriff-s-Office?detail=email#