Remains fully supportive of Montgomery because and says we are in a tougher conference and we are competitive. Fire this idiot! All of the places he has been have been terrible and get better when he leaves.
Gragg
- Thread starter TULSARISING
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Pretty sure UCF, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, SMU, Navy and ECU are familiar competition. Arkansas State isn't a result of a more difficult conference. Pretty sure we shouldn't live in fear of Temple or UCONN. Heck... Houston, Memphis and UCF don't seem to be suffering in our new conference.
I call shenanigans.
I call shenanigans.
Take a look at the football schedule . Notice all of the "L" markings. Dr. Gragg finds that acceptable. That means he needs go.
He’s the messenger. Don’t kill him. He has deficiencies and he is aware of them. This is not of his doing.
Part of his job is to show public support of a coach now during a season, even if changes are made after more losses by folks up chain.
Part of his job is also acknowledging that off the field performance for TU football has made significant gains in game day experience, alumni relations, and booster outreach under his tenure and that on the field performance is the only portion of the program that is under performing right now.
He isn’t getting paid his absurd salary to manage compliance and take credit for the hard work of the above. He’s getting paid to raise money and motivate the coaches to improve on the field performance when it falls below acceptable standards and firing is not an option. He himself is falling below acceptable performance standards in this regard.
It’s been a tough year. We should have been tougher. The question is whether Gragg has the management ability to be tougher in the off season on Montgomery (if they both survive) to ensure changes are made so that we don’t have a third year of similar performance. That may mean finding the courage and touch to inform Montgomery that changes need to be made at the under performing position coach level, including his close friends. It’s not easy to do that, especially when dealing with someone on guaranteed money and the control issues that coaches typically suffer from. But people are paid a lot because they can do difficult things that others cannot. I don’t recall any exceptional performance by this AD and the approval of the pay cut publicity (if he in fact had the last word) and having his son on the team demonstrates questionable judgment regarding conflicts of interest.
Part of his job is to show public support of a coach now during a season, even if changes are made after more losses by folks up chain.
Part of his job is also acknowledging that off the field performance for TU football has made significant gains in game day experience, alumni relations, and booster outreach under his tenure and that on the field performance is the only portion of the program that is under performing right now.
He isn’t getting paid his absurd salary to manage compliance and take credit for the hard work of the above. He’s getting paid to raise money and motivate the coaches to improve on the field performance when it falls below acceptable standards and firing is not an option. He himself is falling below acceptable performance standards in this regard.
It’s been a tough year. We should have been tougher. The question is whether Gragg has the management ability to be tougher in the off season on Montgomery (if they both survive) to ensure changes are made so that we don’t have a third year of similar performance. That may mean finding the courage and touch to inform Montgomery that changes need to be made at the under performing position coach level, including his close friends. It’s not easy to do that, especially when dealing with someone on guaranteed money and the control issues that coaches typically suffer from. But people are paid a lot because they can do difficult things that others cannot. I don’t recall any exceptional performance by this AD and the approval of the pay cut publicity (if he in fact had the last word) and having his son on the team demonstrates questionable judgment regarding conflicts of interest.
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Huffy, I think your post is fair, well balanced, and well written.
On the other hand, we are four years down the road with negative results. The average fan is losing patience. They will wait till the season is over...grudgingly. Past that it gets really tough for all sides.
On the other hand, we are four years down the road with negative results. The average fan is losing patience. They will wait till the season is over...grudgingly. Past that it gets really tough for all sides.
He’s getting squeezed by the players above him and below him, he doesn’t have a lot to up the ante, and his cards don’t look so good.
None of us could do better under the circumstances and it’s speculative that TU could attract any one cheaper and better. Which is what they need and if they can’t get that for sure, then it’s pointless to debate, much less disrupt the entire department because football is stubborn and dysfunctional.
We got bigger problems than the Maytag Repairman.
None of us could do better under the circumstances and it’s speculative that TU could attract any one cheaper and better. Which is what they need and if they can’t get that for sure, then it’s pointless to debate, much less disrupt the entire department because football is stubborn and dysfunctional.
We got bigger problems than the Maytag Repairman.
MacLeod was charismatic and innovative compared to "Dr. Do-Little."
I just felt a draft coming from hell
Two words I would never associate with Judy... charismatic and innovative...
Perhaps good with a hole punch or at her guhzintahs as she made change for my tickets...
But not the others...
But I get your point.
Re-read that article and focus on what Gragg is saying vs what Haistens opinions are. Gragg isn't going to come out and trash the guy halfway through the season. He also points out there's 5 games left for us to get bowl eligible (at the time of the interview that was true). I didn't get the impression he was saying if we don't win anymore games Monty gets to keep his job.
Agreed. No AD is gonna come out at this time and say yea he’s fired. It’s alwahs “we will re-evaluate, our season is still going on..blah blah”
I miss Ross, Rick, John, Bubba, and Emory.
That was a different era and the NCAA didn't suck the life out of athletic departments like they do today.
Glenn Dobbs was a different era. It's unfair to compare that man to any one else Tulsa Athletic history, he is the program which is why he has a statue and a street.
I want Jerry O for AD. I want someone who loves this school and takes a no nonsense approach to it, while keeping Tulsa front and center for the city as a whole.
That might be asking too much of a guy who has already done more than his share for his Alma Mater. But I can dream.
Would be great to have Jerry O., but I prefer Steve Largent. Is Largent any less the hometown hero? Not even close! And he could put the arm on TU donors & be very successful at it, IMO. Not to mention he would work for peanuts compared to Gragg.(He has been quoted as saying he would work in some capacity for TU for nothing). Naturally, no one at TU has approached him. Either one would be a vast improvement.
Precisely. We need an advocate that has some clout with the Tulsa community and one savvy enough to drum up awareness and donations. I love Jerry O. I know he loves TU. He would be a great advocate for student athletes and great with coaches. I'm not sure he could be the glad-hander we need as an AD right now. Most important thing the AD needs to do now is re-establish the relationship with the city of Tulsa and potential donors within the community. My guess is those 2 go hand in hand right now and Gragg really hasn't cultivated either since he's been here.
Largent isn't liked by and for some solid reasons, it seems he is also grinding the axe over a misused donation three decades ago. In fact my understanding is he hasn't contributed more than lip service to the university since then.
Largent also won't work as AD unless we pay him what he thinks he should earn. I asked someone about it and was told it would be a top level pay or nothing. We shouldn't be asking people to take a discount to help us because they love the school anyway.
Largents profile in Tulsa is nil, he hasn't ran for office in forever (2002, 16 years) and divided people up who don't like his politics. Basically people in the public know him as a hearing aide guy in commercials.
Jerry O has coached high school football, had multiple media shows of his own. Appeared regularly on others has been front and center in the public eye here in the city for over a decade. He is liked and respected by all. He doesn't come with the baggage of Largent who also just isn't well known to anyone under 50 in the community and is divisive for those over it.
If you don't realize how well loved and respected Jerry O. is by TU, it's alums, the city in general, I point you to his jersey retirement. The first one in what 20+ years? One that garnered praise and congratulations through out the city.
Largent also won't work as AD unless we pay him what he thinks he should earn. I asked someone about it and was told it would be a top level pay or nothing. We shouldn't be asking people to take a discount to help us because they love the school anyway.
Largents profile in Tulsa is nil, he hasn't ran for office in forever (2002, 16 years) and divided people up who don't like his politics. Basically people in the public know him as a hearing aide guy in commercials.
Jerry O has coached high school football, had multiple media shows of his own. Appeared regularly on others has been front and center in the public eye here in the city for over a decade. He is liked and respected by all. He doesn't come with the baggage of Largent who also just isn't well known to anyone under 50 in the community and is divisive for those over it.
If you don't realize how well loved and respected Jerry O. is by TU, it's alums, the city in general, I point you to his jersey retirement. The first one in what 20+ years? One that garnered praise and congratulations through out the city.
TU needs a professional Athletic Director with the ability and motivation to raise funds for the program during tough times. Someone who can galvanize and expand the donor base. Someone with some real executive experience and not a figurehead. And certainly someone who is willing to be more than a "compliance man."
It's been 10 years. Largent's was retired in 2008. And I am not questioning how much the Tulsa/TU community loves Jerry O. I am full aware and a big fan of his on and off the field. He's just a good guy. My point on him was that it is not necessarily in his personality to be that hand shaker and fundraiser. He's going to be more of a advocate for the student athletes and coaches to the rest of the immediate TU community/President/board etc.
So all those games he attends, people talking to him in the street, being in the media basically every day doesn't give him experience glad handing? Or being connected into the sports community he covers exclusively?
Are big donors going to avoid a living legend? You don't think they know about him bringing Kragthorpe? Aren't a little proud to claim him as ours? You think the lettermen and his former teammates are going to not want to support the school with one of their own there? Have you met Jerry O?
The man is charismatic as hell, he is well connected, visible and doesn't have an axe to grind with his school.
The hardest part for Jerry O would probably be the day to day stuff and NCAA paperwork. The stuff Gragg is good at.
Largent doesn't really want the job, he might take it if we really pushed hard and told him we really love him. The relationship between him and the school is improving over time but still dysfunctional. He hasn't truely been in the public eye since the last time he ran for election 2002. He also lost a leadership position in Congress because he was considered far too conservative by other members of the Republican leadership.
To be fair we are debating two candidates who probably don't really want the job. Which says a lot about our assessment of who does have the job.
Probably right. I met Jerry O about 25 years ago. He wasn't starting in the NFL yet but he had come back to TU to finish some coursework during the Spring semester. He's a great guy to be around. And yes, he has a ton of connections. I just don't think the glad handing people to try and get something out of them is really in his nature. He may be great at it...I don't know that part.
My point on Largent was simply to say that is definitely a part of his DNA and who he is. I have no idea if he would ever consider it or not. And he may have been too Conservative for the GOP in 2002, he'd fit right in with them now.
I assume 4ever2 is more promoting JerryO than poor-mouthing Largent. But If half of the problems 4ever2 says Largent has with Democrats, TU admin-donors & Tulsa in general are true, it's a damn shame. Here's a guy in the conversation for top10 all time TU, top 25 all time NFL(IMO) since he retired with no less than 6 WR records in hand, 7 Pro-bowls not to mention a Hall of Famer.
4ever2 has mentioned Largent's political career & affiliation in 2 different posts. This I suspect, might be the real reason he's being "shunned" at 11th & Harvard since,as we all know but many refuse to admit, TU is no different than 95% of all colleges & universities with liberal faculty & admin running the show where Republican/Conservatives need not apply. Forget the AD job, it's just a shame that Largent doesn't get the respect he deserves as a TU football player(while he certainly gets it in the NFL), a politician who enough Tulsans thought enough of for 4 terms in the House & when I met him, just a heck of a friendly guy.
4ever2 has mentioned Largent's political career & affiliation in 2 different posts. This I suspect, might be the real reason he's being "shunned" at 11th & Harvard since,as we all know but many refuse to admit, TU is no different than 95% of all colleges & universities with liberal faculty & admin running the show where Republican/Conservatives need not apply. Forget the AD job, it's just a shame that Largent doesn't get the respect he deserves as a TU football player(while he certainly gets it in the NFL), a politician who enough Tulsans thought enough of for 4 terms in the House & when I met him, just a heck of a friendly guy.
The issue for his politics is that it will turn off some people in general not TU specifically. We're a small private school alienating the public (further than already) is not a strong strategy.
The issue for Largent and TU goes back to a donation made decades ago. Largent came in and specifically wanted the donation to go towards football. Instead it was generally used for athletics. I wasn't here when it happened so I will avoid details I've been told. But the gist is that we mishandled it from donation to reconciliation. Largent's a proud guy and should be, this really drove a wedge in the relationship. Things have improved since then, but Largent has seemed to hold the grudge. Some Tulsa people hold that grudge against him which just complicates it more.
Largent also has high standards, he has continually indicated that Tulsa is half-assing and shoe stringing the endeavor of college athletics. Our administration in the 1990s cemented this view, especially in football, for many supporters old enough to remember then.
We haven't exactly busted out of the mold on that either. The loss of Ross as AD helped to perpetuate this streak, Tulsa is to some extent just skating by.
While I am pushing for Jerry O, it's hard not to look at our past and see a reoccurring theme. We depend on the love of this university by former students to keep us competitive at the highest level of football.
Dobbs, Rader, Blankenship, Largent, Jerry O, etc etc have been asked to save the program on the cheap. Largent may be right to stand off till Tulsa puts up or shuts up. We have handled those people who have stepped up badly. At some point it has to be clear to the administration and et al that we are committed to playing at the highest level and the alums/fans will not accept the current level of support given for the face we show most of the country.
A University should never use a donation for any other reason if it was given for a specific use. It's downright unethical. Any person or entity who has given a donation for a specific purpose and learns it was used for something other than what it was designated for is entirely within their right to hold a grudge and never offer a donation again.
Donaldson screwed TU over with regards to athletics in the 90s. Students and faculty alike knew this and both the student government and the Faculty Senate held votes of 'no confidence' on him and presented it to the BOT.
Donaldson screwed TU over with regards to athletics in the 90s. Students and faculty alike knew this and both the student government and the Faculty Senate held votes of 'no confidence' on him and presented it to the BOT.
I'm aware of Donaldson, but his view is one still held by some of the people involved with Tulsa, his time is basically the heights of thier influence. It's also a period of time people vividly remember. It carries influence.
My understanding was that Largent made the donation to the athletic department with the intent for it to go to football. Most of it did, but was spread to other athletics. Tulsa's bad. Tulsa went out of it's way to try and fix it. Largent was initially uninterested in mending it, but the relationship has slowly returned to decent/positive. Largent has continued to occassionally grind the axe which is viewed negatively by some at Tulsa.
I am a bit ambivalent about it mainly because of the ill will on both parts being in the past. I view this university as part of my family and therefore think that there should be lots of forgiveness involved for imperfections by the institution and the alums/people. I understand Largent TU messed up, I understand Tulsa, if you forgive TU then you have to be willing to let it go.
The situation is why I think he would be a poor choice for AD. We messed it up long ago. At the same time I think his biggest critism is accurate when viewing the program historically and can't be upset with him for pointing out a flaw that weakens a school he loves.
Largent would have been governor if he had just kept his mouth shut on the cockfighting issue... no one here in rural Oklahoma had any Brad Henry signs out until Largent yielded to the country clubbers and spoke out against it... overnight the Largent signs went down and the Henry signs came out.
