Complete collapse. Another early season dud by Haith. Defense isn’t good enough and our offense just isn’t ready with the new guys.
Game thoughts South Carolina
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Give him 8 more games then we will be good
It's pretty tough to lose when the other team turns it over 24 times, but then we also turned it over 24 times
Love Embery-Simpson and Williams’ play. They’re great additions. Idowu is a nice piece too.
I’m very unhappy with the coaching this game. No adjustments or timeouts once Frank Martin changed up defense. Incredibly frustrating.
I agreed with benching Williams after he tried to dunk on the 2-on-1 instead of dishing to Jackson for the easy layup but not the rest of the game. Williams should be getting the 6th or 7th most minutes. Definitely more than 15.
I’m very unhappy with the coaching this game. No adjustments or timeouts once Frank Martin changed up defense. Incredibly frustrating.
I agreed with benching Williams after he tried to dunk on the 2-on-1 instead of dishing to Jackson for the easy layup but not the rest of the game. Williams should be getting the 6th or 7th most minutes. Definitely more than 15.
Be patient while Frank the second half genius works his magic and makes his adjustments after 10 games
Pretty rough roster to evolve. Perhaps some additional pieces can be added over the next couple of years.
I watched a ton of games this week...TCU and South Carolina aren’t tourney teams. Liberty pounded the Cocks.
It‘a going to be tough to get W’s against decent teams when every team we play will...
1. Have a better inside presence.
2. Make more 3’s.
At this point, we’re a roster of misfit toys. Our “shapshooters” can’t be one dimensional. We’re not good enough to have “specialty players”.
Rachal is BY FAR our best player.
Haywood - He reminds me of Jones, but worse. His attitude on the court is horrible. Not sure what he needs to turn it around, but I don’t see enough raw ability (ball handling, defensive agility, etc.) that will result in an impact player.
Embery-Simpson -Definitely has the skill...he needs to be more selfish (like everyone else on the team).
We’ll need to be patient this season...It’s gonna be nasty.
Martins - We miss ya!
I watched a ton of games this week...TCU and South Carolina aren’t tourney teams. Liberty pounded the Cocks.
It‘a going to be tough to get W’s against decent teams when every team we play will...
1. Have a better inside presence.
2. Make more 3’s.
At this point, we’re a roster of misfit toys. Our “shapshooters” can’t be one dimensional. We’re not good enough to have “specialty players”.
Rachal is BY FAR our best player.
Haywood - He reminds me of Jones, but worse. His attitude on the court is horrible. Not sure what he needs to turn it around, but I don’t see enough raw ability (ball handling, defensive agility, etc.) that will result in an impact player.
Embery-Simpson -Definitely has the skill...he needs to be more selfish (like everyone else on the team).
We’ll need to be patient this season...It’s gonna be nasty.
Martins - We miss ya!
I said it in the game thread, but I'll repeat it here.
This started as a bad game for the players.
It became into Haith morphing into Penny on the sideline. Zero was done from coaching to correct things. We had way too many one or two pass offensive possessions. No changes to our defense to try and get offense from there. No adjustments to the press middle and swing to the perimeter shooter offense SC ran repeatedly.
Basically zero in game adjustments, strategically, tactically, or personnel wise. Bad effort by players either started with or spread to the coach, regardless of which way it went, that's on Haith. Overall poor performance and maybe one of the worse ones in Haiths time here.
This started as a bad game for the players.
It became into Haith morphing into Penny on the sideline. Zero was done from coaching to correct things. We had way too many one or two pass offensive possessions. No changes to our defense to try and get offense from there. No adjustments to the press middle and swing to the perimeter shooter offense SC ran repeatedly.
Basically zero in game adjustments, strategically, tactically, or personnel wise. Bad effort by players either started with or spread to the coach, regardless of which way it went, that's on Haith. Overall poor performance and maybe one of the worse ones in Haiths time here.
He will also cost us games.
Point guards require a lot of basketball IQ development and the game to slow down. Just tossing him in the deep end won't improve him as a point guard, although it may help his individual development. We don't need another good player, we need offensive structure.
We need a player with the personality of Zaven Collins who refuses to lose as he has not lost a game this year as he didn’t play 2nd half of Osu.
We couldn't adjust to Martin's defensive change. They overplayed the next pass away. Our offense is not getting multiple passes and rotation and there seems to be no set plays for anyone. Poor Joiner is left dribbling at his feet and not quick enough to drive consistently. Rashal is best inside 15 feet but can't dribble his way in there. KES needs to have some plays for him to shoot open shots He is not great yet creating them. Jackson is the only player with get to the rim skills. Ugboh is developing so slowly, we can't wait .....Williams just needs to play more, probably the same with Richie. I like Idowu as he has a lot of potential.
I've called for Urbancic as a shooter but coach must see something different. It seems obvious that an at-large is slipping away quickly with few chances to redeem ourselves. These are bubble teams that are beating us.
I've called for Urbancic as a shooter but coach must see something different. It seems obvious that an at-large is slipping away quickly with few chances to redeem ourselves. These are bubble teams that are beating us.
Another season. Another disappointment.
I feel like an abused housewife who just cant leave her drunk hillbilly man. I dont even know why I keep thinking it will change. It never changes. Same crap every year.
I feel like an abused housewife who just cant leave her drunk hillbilly man. I dont even know why I keep thinking it will change. It never changes. Same crap every year.
He does just enough to keep himself around by beating low expectations.
Follow up question then, what stopped him from giving Richie more minutes, Urbancic any minutes. I'm assuming it is defense, just wondering if he went into that in the presser.
Miss St 48.7% (3pt % for Liberty)
S Carolina 42.3
TCU 21.4
They would have hit them all from the corners, and killed us.
I guess Urbancic & Shumate will get red-shirted? The former can really shoot it, which we currently lack, and the latter rebounds like a bear & dunks aggressively. Oh, you say, these freshman will turn it over too much. Could it get much worse than 24 today?
Isn’t the us year basically a free year of eligibility for everyone because of everyone changing plans for covid? No reason for anyone to redshirt unless I’m missing something.
In the presser Haith said he wanted more minutes for Richie and Urbancic. Nothing bout Shumate.
You just waste a season by redshirting this year. The player will be in the same class next year as he was this year, whether he plays or not.
It was mixed. We were unlikely to get an at large based on the numbers. Looked like a middle of the road NIT team. But we greatly outperformed low expectations.
OK, no redshirts in 2020. Didn't know it applied to basketball as well as football That's great. Then I wonder why neither one of these freshmen got one stinkin minute in these 2 games? Could have used some extra rebounds yesterday & some shooting today.
We’ve reached late stage Wojism. The names change, but the script remains the same. Half-baked roster construction with some intriguing individual players, but no concept of how they all fit together.
He found a complex defensive scheme that works in this league, only to continue building the roster from misfit toys who have buried their at-large chances by the time they’ve learned it and grad transfer soon after.
He forces square combo guards into a round point guard hole and then wonders why the offense doesn’t run smoothly and the turnovers pile up. He insists on running 4-out without ensuring the 1-in has any ability to rebound. He builds a roster ideal for pressure, but never presses.
My opinion of Frank Haith as a person has changed since he was hired in 2014. I now legitimately believe he’s a good guy. He’s a player’s coach who actually cares about his players. It matters that he’s not Gregg Marshall.
Unfortunately, as he continues on this crash course to simultaneously extend the longest postseason drought for the program in my lifetime while also becoming the “winningest” coach in the history of the program, my opinion of him as a coach is the exact same as it was then. He’s just not a very good one.
He found a complex defensive scheme that works in this league, only to continue building the roster from misfit toys who have buried their at-large chances by the time they’ve learned it and grad transfer soon after.
He forces square combo guards into a round point guard hole and then wonders why the offense doesn’t run smoothly and the turnovers pile up. He insists on running 4-out without ensuring the 1-in has any ability to rebound. He builds a roster ideal for pressure, but never presses.
My opinion of Frank Haith as a person has changed since he was hired in 2014. I now legitimately believe he’s a good guy. He’s a player’s coach who actually cares about his players. It matters that he’s not Gregg Marshall.
Unfortunately, as he continues on this crash course to simultaneously extend the longest postseason drought for the program in my lifetime while also becoming the “winningest” coach in the history of the program, my opinion of him as a coach is the exact same as it was then. He’s just not a very good one.
What do you mean low expectations? The man just won the AAC last season, which is the best basketball conference we've ever been a part of. Some of you guys are unrealistic. Yes, Haith's system takes time and we always lose games in non conference that we shouldn't lose but when conference play comes around we are almost always a contender. We are not going to get anyone better than Haith thanks to Wojcik torpedoing our program. At this point, let the man build a program and continue to compete for conference championships.
There are some pro-Haith arguments, but this ain’t it.
Making the tourney say 1 out of every 3 years is not unrealistic and no one can argue that he hasn’t been given the time to build a program. There’s definitely a risk in changing coaches but getting a coach better than Haith certainly can be done. There are plenty of coaches that do more with less and who will do it for less money.
I speak for only myself, but I want to watch Tulsa get a seed on selection Sunday and then win a game or two in the tourney now and then. Last year was nice and winning this conference is impressive. It definitely earned Haith another year to prove we turned a corner. Still....wouldn’t have been a tourney team. I have quite a bit of optimism with the talent on our team, but we need to get better fast.
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Amen! This opening two game set had in my view the worst PG (so called) play Not only
in Haith's tenure, but in my memory....The only bright spots were Williams' brief stints,
and he still has a lot of learning in front of him.....I don't see any quick solutions to that
situation, as Joiner has emerged as his old self, only more so.....
Moral of the story: If you want PG play, you actually have to recruit true PGs!!
People forget that we were going to be the first AAC co-champ to miss the NCAA tournament due to our terrible OOC record. Well, Haith says we would have gotten in if we won the tournament beating Houston. That was not going to happen.
Just compare PG from our NCAA days with now. Pooh Williamson vs Joiner is maybe the best example. But even Joiner could perform better if some set plays were drawn up so he wouldn't end up dribbling at his feet for 20 seconds and then trying an ill-fated drive into traffic.
Just compare PG from our NCAA days with now. Pooh Williamson vs Joiner is maybe the best example. But even Joiner could perform better if some set plays were drawn up so he wouldn't end up dribbling at his feet for 20 seconds and then trying an ill-fated drive into traffic.
Really good discussion of really poor basketball....Maybe it's just me, but
this team seems even less prepared at the start than most of Haith's
others.....And, that's really being unprepared!
this team seems even less prepared at the start than most of Haith's
others.....And, that's really being unprepared!
We need our defensive genius assistant coach back from last year. Apparently none of the coaches remaining can recall what to do.
Regardless of whether he wanted to retire or not, I'm pretty sure it was his decision not Haith's. Retire, rejoin his wife,(since Wainwright and his wife didn't want her to move here) still his decision. That was a tenable position we were in with him. Wish he had wanted to do it for two or three years, but understand him not wanting it for more than a year.
That wouldn’t be surprising. At his age I wouldn’t want to be traveling around the country and be away from my family during the era of the coronavirus.
It was Wainwright's decision. I don't fault him at all. I loved his practice sessions with our guys. Completely different ways to look at things. I just think there obviously is a real fall off in knowledge and respect lost in the transition.
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