Europe is in real trouble…and it’s all their fault.

Gmoney4WW

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Why, because they have relied on Russia for power? Yes this is problematic because they don't haven't time to find an alternate source. But even given time, an alternate source wouldn't be easy to find. Not only is it more expensive, but it would even be hard to find given 3 or 4 years.

I don't think that would change extending it out decades. European gas wells dried up in the 60's & 70's. Coal stopped being used as much, due to climate change. The only significant source they could have moved more towards, or at least not moved away from, was nuclear.
 

lawpoke87

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Germany has made many missteps which has led to its dependency on Putin’s gas. They were warned many times of the perils of giving Putin the keys to the kingdom so to speak. The outcome was obvious to everyone outside of Europe. Cut investment on nuclear. Fail to diversify gas suppliers. Rely on green energy before it’s ready to fill the gaps. Just to name a few. I’ve attached an article which goes down the laundry list


 

TU_BLA

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So is this worse than the 3rd world blackouts Texas will experience this winter? Weather is only going to get more extreme, sort of like our current political climate. Summers will be hotter and dryer, winters will be colder and icier and for longer stretches of time and Texas' power grid was essentially designed and built in the stone age by the lowest bidder.
 

lawpoke87

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So is this worse than the 3rd world blackouts Texas will experience this winter? Weather is only going to get more extreme, sort of like our current political climate. Summers will be hotter and dryer, winters will be colder and icier and for longer stretches of time and Texas' power grid was essentially designed and built in the stone age by the lowest bidder.
When your heating bills are 10x what they were last winter…yes…and that’s assuming there is gas to heat your home. That is worse than blackouts cause by a 100 year event in Texas. That is worse than the rolling blackouts we have seen in California over the past 5 years and will continue to see in that state. That is worse than anything we’ve seen in the states to date.

The shortage in Europe has zero to do with climate change. Not sure why you brought it up in this context. Europe is in deep trouble even with a climatology normal weather…and it’s almost entirely self inflicted.
 

TU_BLA

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When your heating bills are 10x what they were last winter…yes…and that’s assuming there is gas to heat your home. That is worse than blackouts cause by a 100 year event in Texas. That is worse than the rolling blackouts we have seen in California over the past 5 years and will continue to see in that state. That is worse than anything we’ve seen in the states to date.

The shortage in Europe has zero to do with climate change. Not sure why you brought it up in this context. Europe is in deep trouble even with a climatology normal weather…and it’s almost entirely self inflicted.
In the context that Europe ignored the pending disaster is similar to what is going to happen and get worse in TX and TX Leg and governor largely ignoring it and skipping town when things go down. All brought on by inept leaders essentially. Europe's is more of a sudden onset problem due to basically boycotting anything Russian produced. TX is just people ignoring the issue and allowing utilities to do whatever they please, continue to raise prices for profit and not demand some of that be state required reinvesting into the modernization of the grid to keep up with increased demand which has been forecast for quite some time. Instead places like TX and OK allow their utility companies to pass on billions in losses because of their ineptitude and still with no real commitment from those companies to upgrade their infrastructure to ensure production levels can meet demand. Instead those losses will just be delayed payment on dividends down the road for investors and exec bonuses
 

lawpoke87

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In the context that Europe ignored the pending disaster is similar to what is going to happen and get worse in TX and TX Leg and governor largely ignoring it and skipping town when things go down. All brought on by inept leaders essentially. Europe's is more of a sudden onset problem due to basically boycotting anything Russian produced. TX is just people ignoring the issue and allowing utilities to do whatever they please, continue to raise prices for profit and not demand some of that be state required reinvesting into the modernization of the grid to keep up with increased demand which has been forecast for quite some time. Instead places like TX and OK allow their utility companies to pass on billions in losses because of their ineptitude and still with no real commitment from those companies to upgrade their infrastructure to ensure production levels can meet demand. Instead those losses will just be delayed payment on dividends down the road for investors and exec bonuses
It’s very different. Europe placed their future in the hands of a deranged dictator. Anyone with common sense knew the likely outcome.

Not sure why you keep focusing on Texas other than political. Did they have issues during a once in 100 year event..yes. Has Texas experienced widespread issues ala California prior or since…no. Might I suggest you take a minute and look at the current state of California’s power grid and it’s annual blackout experiences? I would be happy to compare the number of blackouts in Texas over the past ten years to those in California. That said many states have power grid issues. See New York for example. California just seems to be the poster child over the past decade plus for blackouts.

Regardless, the tread was about Germany and it’s self inflicted energy crisis which is about to come to a head this winter.
 
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TU_BLA

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It’s very different. Europe placed their future in the hands of a deranged dictator. Anyone with common sense knew the likely outcome.

Not sure why you keep focusing on Texas other than political. Did they have issues during a once in 100 year event..yes. Has Texas experienced widespread issues ala California prior or since…no. Might I suggest you take a minute and look at the current state of California’s power grid and it’s annual blackout experiences? I would be happy to compare the number of blackouts in Texas over the past ten years to those in California. That said many states have power grid issues. See New York for example. California just seems to be the poster child over the past decade plus for blackouts.

Regardless, the tread was about Germany and it’s self inflicted energy crisis which is about to come to a head this winter.
I am familiar with California's issue, and much of it is driven by infrastructure that continues to get ravage by annual wildfires. And a bazillion people in extremely dense population centers.

And I keep mentioning TX because even though they like to say they're not on a national power grid or network, when these 100 year events happen every 2-3 years as will happen now, things are going to start getting diverted and it will start impacting OK more than it should (as well as LA, AR, NM, and possibly KS).
 

lawpoke87

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I am familiar with California's issue, and much of it is driven by infrastructure that continues to get ravage by annual wildfires. And a bazillion people in extremely dense population centers.

And I keep mentioning TX because even though they like to say they're not on a national power grid or network, when these 100 year events happen every 2-3 years as will happen now, things are going to start getting diverted and it will start impacting OK more than it should (as well as LA, AR, NM, and possibly KS).
I’m not convinced we’re going to see those types of events in Texas every 2-3 years from now but that is a pointless discussion as neither of us knows the answer. Texas does need to update their grid to deal with their rapidly increasing population at the least. Being viewed as a great place to live does come with its own set of issues. Hopefully the issues we’re seeing California can somewhat be alleviated by the current exodus from that state.
 

astonmartin708

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Law poke is right on this one. European dependence on Russian hydro carbons is the major factor here. I think Biden is spot on when he says the world has entered an economic downturn due to Putin’s actions.

The real question becomes can we weather the consequences of our decisions to continue to punish Putin and can we, in the meantime, change how we source energy for the entire European continent. (With a mix of imported LNG and renewable energy)

If Putin wants to give up some of his energy market share to fund his near stalemate war in Ukraine, the US will make up the gap with our vast reserves of natural gas as Europe detoxes from its Russian dependency. They’re still going to build more renewable energy that allows them some self sufficiency in the long run though.
 

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