Covid was the result of a Chinese lab leak

[lawpoke87]

Fairly significant step for the US Government to make such a finding. Remember, it wasn’t that long ago when doctors and others were being censored on social media sites for making such claims. Illiterates the risk to humanity posed by humans

WSJ News Exclusive | Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19 Pandemic, Energy Department Now Says

The U.S. agency’s revised assessment of how the pandemic started is based on new intelligence.

www.wsj.com

 

[Clong83a]

Fairly significant step for the US Government to make such a finding. Remember, it wasn’t that long ago when doctors and others were being censored on social media sites for making such claims. Illiterates the risk to humanity posed by humans

WSJ News Exclusive | Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19 Pandemic, Energy Department Now Says

The U.S. agency’s revised assessment of how the pandemic started is based on new intelligence.

www.wsj.com

This is the DoE's report. Full disclosure: I work for the DoE, and the following opinions are my own.

I am not going to tell you to take the report with a grain of salt, because it should definitely have some weight. However, this result is a tad different than other intelligence reports on COVID origins. That is, it doesn't really contain any intelligence data at all, and relies mostly on an assessment of our own national laboratories and how such a release would look from one of our labs.

That's something, but they also shopped the report and the information they used to other agencies before releasing this publicly, and no other agency that has released reports on this was swayed to update their assessment, including the ones that were inclusive.

We may never fully know the origins of this, and frankly, I don't think it matters much. It doesn't show any of the hallmarks of being bioengineered, so if it did release from the lab then it was likely a virus they had detected and were concerned about jumping to humans and were studying in a lab, where.... it eventually infected humans and escaped.

 

[lawpoke87]

Thanks for the response. I assume any further intelligence re the origins of the virus will be limited seeing China appears to have shut down all cooperation on the same. I simply found it interesting a government agency would come out with such a finding given our prior reluctance to directly accuse the Chinese of malfeasance. Never know how much (past and present) is political.

 

[Clong83a]

Thanks for the response. I assume any further intelligence re the origins of the virus will be limited seeing China appears to have shut down all cooperation on the same. I simply found it interesting a government agency would come out with such a finding given our prior reluctance to directly accuse the Chinese of malfeasance. Never know how much (past and present) is political.

Yep.

I'd honestly be surprised if it was anything worse than an accident involving a virus of concern they had been studying, if not a natural event. But even calling the Chinese out even on a suspected accident is something we've historically been hesitant to do.

Hard to know if the balloon incident and otherwise decaying relations have emboldened us to finally say things out loud, or if this report is maybe even just a highly speculative document that is nothing more than a naked political attempt to sway international opinion against them.

What a world we live in, post-truth.


I am glad we are appearing less politically intimidated by China, though. Deterrence is the best way to avoid conflict, and you won't deter anyone if you are obviously afraid of pissing someone off. Deterrence works only when your enemy believes you might actually stand up to them...

 

[astonmartin708]

Fairly significant step for the US Government to make such a finding. Remember, it wasn’t that long ago when doctors and others were being censored on social media sites for making such claims. Illiterates the risk to humanity posed by humans

WSJ News Exclusive | Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19 Pandemic, Energy Department Now Says

The U.S. agency’s revised assessment of how the pandemic started is based on new intelligence.

www.wsj.com

US agencies differ slightly on this from agency to agency.

 

[lawpoke87]

US agencies differ slightly on this from agency to agency.

Agreed. Although there does seem to be some momentum toward the lab leak theory. I’ve never understood why the left have gone to such lengths to quash the idea of a lab leak. Ideas?

 

[lawpoke87]

Statement from the Director of the FBI yesterday on this matter.

 

[astonmartin708]

Agreed. Although there does seem to be some momentum toward the lab leak theory. I’ve never understood why the left have gone to such lengths to quash the idea of a lab leak. Ideas?

I honestly don’t care either way. I think it’s just not really something so significant as conservatives make it except for learning how to deal with research materials in the future.

 

[astonmartin708]

Statement from the Director of the FBI yesterday on this matter.

View embedded media

What does the CIA think? I don’t quite care about a domestic investigatory agency’s assessment of a foreign event

 

[lawpoke87]

I honestly don’t care either way. I think it’s just not really something so significant as conservatives make it except for learning how to deal with research materials in the future.

If it’s not significant why has the left done everything in their power to silence any discussion related to the lab leak theory? Allegiance to China? Fauci? Just curious where the effort to dismiss any thought of a lab leak originates?

You’re still trying to dismiss the notion by ignoring the FBI and DOE. Why? To my knowledge these two opinions are the most recent evaluations we have based on recent intelligence.

 

[astonmartin708]

If it’s not significant why has the left done everything in their power to silence any discussion related to the lab leak theory? Allegiance to China? Fauci? Just curious where the effort to dismiss any thought of a lab leak originates?

You’re still trying to dismiss the notion by ignoring the FBI and DOE. Why? To my knowledge these two opinions are the most recent evaluations we have based on recent intelligence.

My question is why are the DOE and the FBI, two organizations that don’t have pandemic illnesses originating in other nations in their purview, being pointed at as important sources?

When the CDC releases an investigation on OPEC am I supposed to give that the same amount of weighting that I do the department of energy?

There is no allegiance to China, I just think what is trying to be done is to tamp down the idea that China did this intentionally (because that is something that any of our agencies, even the most effective ones, will have trouble proving. And because of how precarious the US China relationship is at the moment)

It also doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. The point of origin does not matter as much as the mishandling of virulent materials or the poor preparedness of our country for such a disaster.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Did they do it intentionally with the idea that they could withstand it better than us?(the rest of the world) That was a major backfire if so. I don't think it was intentional,. Then again, the egos of upper level politicians in China is ridiculous enough, that maybe... Playing the long game, they still might think it accomplished most of their goals, enough to compensate for the strife that they had to deal with.

 

[aTUfan]

where are the apoligies from the left?

 

[lawpoke87]

Did they did it intentionally with the idea that they could withstand it better than us?(the rest of the world) That was a major backfire if so. I don't think it was intentional,. Then again, the egos of upper level politicians in China is ridiculous enough that maybe... Playing the long game, they still might think it accomplished most of their goals, enough to compensate for the strife that they had to deal with.

I believe it was an unintentional leak. The lack of cooperation of the Chinese has been beyond frustrating. Yet I understand why they have taken such a course. Even unintentional, their lab is responsible for millions of deaths worldwide and trillions of dollars in costs. Knowing the facts behind how the leak occurred would surely be beneficial in preventing further disasters. Unfortunately, we likely will never know the details.

 

[Clong83a]

If it’s not significant why has the left done everything in their power to silence any discussion related to the lab leak theory? Allegiance to China? Fauci? Just curious where the effort to dismiss any thought of a lab leak originates?

You’re still trying to dismiss the notion by ignoring the FBI and DOE. Why? To my knowledge these two opinions are the most recent evaluations we have based on recent intelligence.

I think what the ‘left’ pushed back on were the crazy conspiracy theories that it was somehow bioengineered when everyone knowledgeable said it wasn't engineered by any known means. The "lab leak" theory somehow became entwined with the idea of an intentional release of a bioengineered virus for nefarious purposes. If you were talking about a "lab leak", people just assumed you were talking nonsense and dismissed you.

It doesn't help for honest debate and discussion of ideas that conspiracy theories get so much play nowadays. It's hard to know whether someone is honestly taking a nuanced and thoughtful view, or is just trying to sell you an opening to a conspiracy theory. And nobody has time or expertise to determine for themselves what really happened.

I think we are past that point now and can discuss the more nuanced idea that yes, maybe it did come from an accidental release at the lab which could have been studying a virus of concern in a perfectly normal way.

I still think that is a lot of paperwork, lab evidence, and documentation to hide and cover up. Also presumably a lot of people that know the truth that China would have to keep quiet. But hey, it's China, and they can do that a lot easier than we can. So it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

Which is actually all the DOE document really says. I believe it states that it has a "low" confidence in the lab leak theory, which is essentially government-speak for: "We aren't really endorsing this idea, but we can't rule it out either."

Which is still nice to hear, because it means that controversial ideas are being genuinely considered and they are not afraid to present them just because it might piss off our "most favored status" trade partner.

 

[Clong83a]

I believe it was an unintentional leak. The lack of cooperation of the Chinese has been beyond frustrating. Yet I understand why they have taken such a course. Even unintentional, their lab is responsible for millions of deaths worldwide and trillions of dollars in costs. Knowing the facts behind how the leak occurred would surely be beneficial in preventing further disasters. Unfortunately, we likely will never know the details.

That is something that plagues these kinds of governments.

For example, when a US nuclear power plant has a SCRAM, or basically anything unexpected happens at all, no matter how benign it might seem, a full work up is done. They figure out what happened and publish it and disseminate it so that other plants can learn from it. Ditto with airline crashes, etc.

Contrast that with the USSR, where any kind of possibly embarrassing incident was covered up, not published, and vehemently denied. One leads to a robust and safe industry, the other leads to repeated similar accidents where the industry literally can't learn from its mistakes and become better.

The problems with the graphite tipped fuel rods at Chernobyl were known and documented, but the data was surpressed. Guess what happened.