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Covid Lies

Ironically, Africa has handled this pandemic pretty well, and one could either choose to believe it's because of their climate or because nearly every African nation has a mask mandate. I wouldn't say that climate plays much part as India and Brazil are both in warm climates.
 
That's not true. They locked down in March / April just like the US did. They also have mask mandates. https://tribune.com.pk/story/227021...lic-places-as-second-covid-wave-hits-pakistan

Venezuela has locked down multiple times because they can't afford PPE. They do officially have a mask mandate though.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/which-countries-are-requiring-face-masks

The only one that requires facemasks and that are doing exceptionally poorly in terms of deaths are India and France. India because it's so poor and France probably because people are being A**holes about wearing them (also France was hit hard early on)
Pakistan may have restrictions but there is very little enforcement. Venezuela locked down in the name of Covid but everyone who knows anything about Venezuela knows they locked down bc of the Coup attempts and social unrest. They can’t even afford basics like toilet paper so the idea they would be able to enforce a mask mandate is not realistic. Finally, as you see France and Germany collaborated with their lockdown plan yesterday, all Western Europe countries have enforced strict mask mandates with penalties of €500 for not wearing them. It has not worked! This is why the last ditch effort is back to lockdown.
 
Ironically, Africa has handled this pandemic pretty well, and one could either choose to believe it's because of their climate or because nearly every African nation has a mask mandate. I wouldn't say that climate plays much part as India and Brazil are both in warm climates.
Do a quick comparison countries with large % of people with O blood types against the countries with high Chins Virus with other blood types. There is a clear pattern!
 
Except... Japan doesn't have a high O type. Mexico does and they're having a terrible time. Blood type isn't a good indicator.
Mexico also has a high percentage of people who are obese in comparison to the African continent and even the majority of South America. I don’t know if it’s the whole key but blood type plays a huge role
 
I would take the covid numbers from places like India, Pakistan, etc...with grain of salt due to their limited testing compared to the US and Europe before any "their kicking our butt" declaration is made. If that statement were true it tells us mass testing is a non-factor in reducing infections. There's an obvious answer here but some seem to miss it.

Can we at least compare apples to apples. Countries doing high numbers of test per capita to reported infections. Hint....hard to know your number of infections if you aren't testing.
 
I would take the covid numbers from places like India, Pakistan, etc...with grain of salt due to their limited testing compared to the US and Europe before any "their kicking our butt" declaration is made. If that statement were true it tells us mass testing is a non-factor in reducing infections. There's an obvious answer here but some seem to miss it.

Can we at least compare apples to apples. Countries doing high numbers of test per capita to reported infections. Hint....hard to know your number of infections if you aren't testing.
I concur that limited testing is a liability to the data accuracy coming from some of these countries especially in regards to their total infection rate... but I do expect that at least their death count would be somewhat more reliable as it's easier to assess. I'd be interested to see if these low testing countries have seen any significant uptick in non-covid related deaths as compared to previous years... meaning their covid deaths could be under reported. I didn't want to have to look into the data that far just to prove that people should wear masks.

One thing I did look at was the positive test rate that they had. Pakistan's was comparatively low to some of our states'
 
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I concur that limited testing is a liability to the data accuracy coming from some of these countries especially in regards to their total infection rate... but I do expect that at least their death count would be somewhat more reliable as it's easier to assess. I'd be interested to see if these countries have seen any significant uptick in non-covid related deaths as compared to previous years... meaning their covid deaths could be under reported. I didn't want to have to look into the data that far just to prove that people should wear masks.

I can almost guarantee you that people are dying in many parts of rural and poorer India and Pakistan and not being tested for covid as a cause due to facilities and test availability.
 
My son wore an N95 when required to wear a mask at football.
He was PO'ED when he got COVID-19.

Even crazier, I didn't think about wearing a mask when I took him to get tested so I was in the car with him for an hour, 2.5 days after symptom onset plus being around him at the house. Neither my wife nor I tested positive.

Didn't change how often we wear masks but, it was frustrating for him and strange for us.
That's crazy and just goes to show how fickle this thing is. I hope your son is okay and recovering quickly.

Even with N95 masks, it is still not 100% effective. The pore size is still large enough for virus to get through if you are unlucky. And there can be reliability issues like with anything else. 1 out of every xxx masks is going to be defective and have a thin spot or microtear that makes it no more effective than a cloth mask. It's possible he got a "lemon". Anyway, I am glad you didn't get ill.


Similarly, my wife drove me to the hospital while I had the flu a couple of years ago because she was concerned I was developing pneumonia. I was sick as a dog and no doubt highly contagious. She didn't wear a mask and didn't ever get sick. It can be totally random.
 
That's crazy and just goes to show how fickle this thing is. I hope your son is okay and recovering quickly.

Even with N95 masks, it is still not 100% effective. The pore size is still large enough for virus to get through if you are unlucky. And there can be reliability issues like with anything else. 1 out of every xxx masks is going to be defective and have a thin spot or microtear that makes it no more effective than a cloth mask. It's possible he got a "lemon". Anyway, I am glad you didn't get ill.


Similarly, my wife drove me to the hospital while I had the flu a couple of years ago because she was concerned I was developing pneumonia. I was sick as a dog and no doubt highly contagious. She didn't wear a mask and didn't ever get sick. It can be totally random.

Thanks. He's good.
Felt crappy for a few days, lost his taste for one, had some breathing issues a couple days after that then was back 100%.
Interesting on the "lemon." I hadn't considered that.
The randomness of these viruses is so weird...
 
Which is my point. The US and Europe have enough tests at this point where everyone who needs or even wants a test can get one. Yet both regions are seeing or about to see record infections. Thus it appears having more than adequate testing isn’t the answer to stopping the spread of the virus. Same for the wearing of masks. The only real “novel” part of this virus is the asymptomatic part. It spreads very much like most virus via airborn particles. The infection numbers here are about to get a lot worse. Again...tests and masks aren’t the answer. The only measure which seems to have an appreciable effect is not getting near each other.

12.7% positivity in OK.

 
Fun with numbers.. Thst's infection rate. How many know they have it.? How many will actually become ill?
 
Question. If we were to test everyone for the flu, would the result be a lot of people testing positive but never getting sick.
 
Sorry but I can’t get on board with the idea that the virus spreading is the fault of “selfish people.” This is just an easy way to blame people you don’t like.

I went to a wedding in Sperry a few weeks back. There’s a non-zero chance that some number of the people who attended that wedding will or have tested positive. It could even become a superspreader event, who knows? And yet the choice of our friends to have this wedding and my wife and I to attend it has nothing to do with selfishness.

These aren’t your anti-mask Trumpers. They’re two moderate lefty TU law grads and they postponed their wedding twice for the rest of us. Take precautions, assess what risk is reasonable for yourself and your family and act appropriately, but at some point life has to go on and we have to be able to do some of the important things that make life worth living.
 
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Sorry but I can’t get on board with the idea that the virus spreading is the fault of “selfish people.” This is just an easy way to blame people you don’t like.

I went to a wedding in Sperry a few weeks back. There’s a non-zero chance that some number of the people who attended that wedding will or have tested positive. It could even become a superspreader event, who knows? And yet the choice of our friends to have this wedding and my wife and I to attend it has nothing to do with selfishness.

These aren’t your anti-mask Trumpers. They’re two moderate lefty TU law grads and they postponed their wedding twice for the rest of us. Take precautions, assess what risk is reasonable for yourself and your family and act appropriately, but at some point life has to go on and we have to be able to do some of the important things that make life worth living.
Or just get married without having a bunch of guests. I have a friend who's doing that. I was going to be his best man but I think they're going to do it where you can tune in and watch online.
 
Or just get married without having a bunch of guests. I have a friend who's doing that. I was going to be his best man but I think they're going to do it where you can tune in and watch online.

Good for them. I’m fine with my friends having their wedding with some precautions and we were happy to attend. The bargain we made with local and state leaders was that we would allow them unprecedented power, shutdown, and postpone life long enough to increase hospital surge capacity and testing capacity so that people wouldn’t be dying in the streets untreated. This was not an indefinite blank check and it has been several months. Family events with precautions should not be frowned upon at this point.

I live in El Paso, where we are having a real surge in cases for the first time and I’m not going to be slightest bit upset if my neighbor has 30 people over for his daughter’s birthday(as is common here). The city has had 8 months to get its :crap: together and prepare for this.
 
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Sorry but I can’t get on board with the idea that the virus spreading is the fault of “selfish people.” This is just an easy way to blame people you don’t like.

I went to a wedding in Sperry a few weeks back. There’s a non-zero chance that some number of the people who attended that wedding will or have tested positive. It could even become a superspreader event, who knows? And yet the choice of our friends to have this wedding and my wife and I to attend it has nothing to do with selfishness.

These aren’t your anti-mask Trumpers. They’re two moderate lefty TU law grads and they postponed their wedding twice for the rest of us. Take precautions, assess what risk is reasonable for yourself and your family and act appropriately, but at some point life has to go on and we have to be able to do some of the important things that make life worth living.
I finally had my parents funeral after three cancellations on the 10th of October.(They died in February) There was going to be a wake and I threw out that possibility. The people that were immunity infringed and/or older, and the people who had to travel by plane didn't come. What would have been a funeral of 125-150 people became a funeral of approximately 35 people. I have a large contingent of anti mask wearers/Trump supporters in my family. (50/50 split) A lot of them came. They all wore masks indoors.

We had one relative shortly after the funeral in which her doctor told her he thought she was likely to have Covid. Her doctor told her to get tested before she came to see him. She wasn't there, but her daughter and grandchild(my sister and niece) were at the funeral. So there was a couple of days we were nervous, but her test came out negative, so no semi super spreader event yet.

Despite all my Super Trump supporter family members being there, we all took precautions.

Some of those family members were at Sturgis.
 
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Good for them. I’m fine with my friends having their wedding with some precautions and we were happy to attend. The bargain we made with local and state leaders was that we would allow them unprecedented power, shutdown, and postpone life long enough to increase hospital surge capacity and testing capacity so that people wouldn’t be dying in the streets untreated. This was not an indefinite blank check and it has been several months. Family events with precautions should not be frowned upon at this point.

I live in El Paso, where we are having a real surge in cases for the first time and I’m not going to be slightest bit upset if my neighbor has 30 people over for his daughter’s birthday(as is common here). The city has had 8 months to get its :crap: together and prepare for this.
My opinion is that this event isn't vastly different than what our grandparents went through in WWII. We're facing an enemy that has killed just as many (actually more) Americans as we faced back then. The biggest difference from then to now is that their society and communities came together to actually make tangible sacrifices in order to help save lives. They rationed rubber, meat, gas and clothing. They stopped producing durable goods like housing, vacuum cleaners, kitchen appliances. Prices and wages were controlled. The government also limited executive pay to companies that had government contracts. The government encouraged people to create 'victory gardens' in their yards because of agricultural shortages. These were mostly tended to by the children of the country. Kids dropped out of school to help out in the labor market. Universities' dorms were turned into barracks. Women were forced out of the home and into factories. Taxes on all people were increased, but the top tax bracket was increased to roughly 95%. People were asked to save their money by investing in our country via war bonds.

We can't even get everyone going into a gas station to wear something over their mouth and nose. No one is willing to give up anything. Few are willing to consistently do what it takes to defeat this adversary that we're facing. They called that generation the "Greatest Generation" and now we see why... because what we're seeing by comparison is the "Worst Generation"

We're not asking kids to drop out of school at 14 or 15 and go work 12 hour shifts in a steel mill. We're asking them to go to school online for a while. We're not drafting people into the military to go fight and die in a foreign land. We're asking them to not have a large wedding or party for a while. It's a real burden that all these people are whining about comparably isn't it? /s
 
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Confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people (Nov 1)
US 697
Sweden 588
Japan 14
South Korea 9
New Zealand 5
Taiwan 0.29
ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths
 
The repeated comparisons to war(especially WWII lol) that I've seen does offer some insight into how some people view themselves right now. I'll say that.

The funny thing about shaming ordinary people by comparing them to people who made great personal sacrifices, whether it be in war or in anything else, is that it's the people who made sacrifices that are the most likely to say "Life is too short. Have your wedding." But I will pass along the message from Aston to my medic. I'll say "Doc King, I know you picked up body parts in Maiwand, but your decision to have your wedding in March shows that you just don't understand the meaning of real sacrifice."

This doesn't mean don't take any precautions and go cough it up at the local nursing home or that we should be holding concerts at the BOK. It just means that there are important events in people's lives, like weddings or saying goodbye to your parents, that I'm done telling people they should sacrifice. They shouldn't.
 
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The repeated comparisons to war(especially WWII lol) that I've seen does offer some insight into how some people view themselves right now. I'll say that.

The funny thing about shaming ordinary people by comparing them to people who made great personal sacrifices, whether it be in war or in anything else, is that it's the people who made sacrifices that are the most likely to say "Life is too short. Have your wedding." But I will pass along the message from Aston to my medic. I'll say "Doc King, I know you picked up body parts in Maiwand, but your decision to have your wedding in March shows that you just don't understand the meaning of real sacrifice."

This doesn't mean don't take any precautions and go cough it up at the local nursing home or that we should be holding concerts at the BOK. It just means that there are important events in people's lives, like weddings or saying goodbye to your parents, that I'm done telling people they should sacrifice. They shouldn't.
Sometimes you just won’t be able to do what’s been traditional and you have to roll with the punches. I compare it to wartime because realistically that’s the last time the US faced such adversity and economic difficulty combined. Just because you sacrificed before doesn’t mean you aren’t needed to sacrifice again. They didn’t say “you get an extra ration card because you starved in the dust bowl” It wasn’t even a question. The people did what they had to do to combat the adversity.

I understand the funeral problem a bit more than I do the Wedding. Weddings can be held whenever and they can be held with few attendees. Funerals are a bit more pressing, though I have personally had family members who had to sacrifice seeing their grandparents’ funerals because of war so even that can be sacrificed in times of trouble in my opinion. I know it’s hard but sometimes the hard thing is the right thing.
 
You guys might want to check out the numbers coming in from Europe.
I keep saying it! Masks are killing people and the ones that are compliant are the first to the slaughter house!
 
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Context around that number is probably needed. 4,751 cases reported contains cases that occurred over several days and sometimes weeks. The most recent number of cases reported by the state by date of onset(rather than date of report) is around 1700 in one day. Still a high number though.
 
Can we all now acknowledge that masks are not the answer ?
The reason I disagree with that is just because there is a mask mandate does not mean people follow them, and you have all of the people in Broken Arrow, Bixby, Sapulpa, ect coming in. You also have lots of people at ball games not social distancing as well. Do I think masks prevent it? Absolutely not! I do, however , believe they cut your chances of getting it or spreading it.
 
The reason I disagree with that is just because there is a mask mandate does not mean people follow them, and you have all of the people in Broken Arrow, Bixby, Sapulpa, ect coming in. You also have lots of people at ball games not social distancing as well. Do I think masks prevent it? Absolutely not! I do, however , believe they cut your chances of getting it or spreading it.

I don’t disagree with that but the reality is that not everyone follows the mask mandate. Here is south Tulsa it’s a good 95% in larger stores. Thus, the mask mandate for whatever reasons (assume there are several) does not appear to be working. We have more cases with the mandate and vast majority of the population wearing them then we did without. Again...there are other factors at play here as well. However at the end of the day we (as well as Europe) have skyrocketing case numbers AND mask mandates. Not sure how anyone can argue it’s not the answer
 
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I don’t disagree with that but the reality is that not everyone follows the mask mandate. Here is south Tulsa it’s a good 95% in larger stores. Thus, the mask mandate for whatever reasons (assume there are several) does not appear to be working. We have more cases with the mandate and vast majority of the population wearing them then we did without. Again...there are other factors at play here as well. However at the end of the day we (as well as Europe) have skyrocketing case numbers AND mask mandates. Not sure how anyone can argue it’s not the answer
I don’t think mandates work ( too many people will not follow it just to “ stick it to the man” ) however I still believe masks help , but honestly the best way is to stay away from large gatherings . Nobody including myself is going to stop seeing my family for the rest of my life
 
In El Paso, where we’ve had a mask mandate for virtually the entire pandemic and near 100% compliance, we’re at roughly 2,000 cases per day in the county alone. Masks seem to be a bit like shooting a 9mm at a tank. I’m not opposed to them, especially if they give politicians cover to keep businesses open, but they don’t seem to be anywhere near as effective as media has portrayed.
 
I don’t disagree with that but the reality is that not everyone follows the mask mandate. Here is south Tulsa it’s a good 95% in larger stores. Thus, the mask mandate for whatever reasons (assume there are several) does not appear to be working. We have more cases with the mandate and vast majority of the population wearing them then we did without. Again...there are other factors at play here as well. However at the end of the day we (as well as Europe) have skyrocketing case numbers AND mask mandates. Not sure how anyone can argue it’s not the answer
The only way we can prove that is for everybody to quit mask wearing tomorrow, and register and compare #'s over the next month or so. I'm not willing to take that chance. But that's the only way(with any real authority) you can say they are or aren't the answer. It the case load moves up significantly in that instance, then they are PART of the answer.
 
I don’t think mandates work ( too many people will not follow it just to “ stick it to the man” ) however I still believe masks help , but honestly the best way is to stay away from large gatherings . Nobody including myself is going to stop seeing my family for the rest of my life
In Asian countries mandates do work. In the US they partially work. I'd rather we have 35% effective protection for half of the population, and no protection for the other half. I think that still cuts the case load/deaths significantly.
 
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The only way we can prove that is for everybody to quit mask wearing tomorrow, and register and compare #'s over the next month or so. I'm not willing to take that chance. But that's the only way(with any real authority) you can say they are or aren't the answer. It the case load moves up significantly in that instance, then they are PART of the answer.

I would argue one can look at the rapidly rising case numbers across the US and Europe and make a compelling argument they are not the answer....at least in those areas. That doesn’t mean they don’t help or are marginally effective btw. Simply means that masks aren’t going to keep case numbers under a reasonable number or manageable growth rate.
 
My Aunt who is an RN at a nursing home in my town just tested positive. Our community has started to be hard hit in any communal health institutions (nursing homes, rehab facilities, etc...) this probably means my uncle has it as well because they tested her on Tuesday and they didn’t find out until Friday. They’re both late 50’s early 60’s. Apparently the nursing home is asking her to continue working unless she is showing significant symptoms. I’m not sure if there are people in the nursing home who DONT have the virus yet, but if there are and the facility is doing stuff like that I would call it murder in a lawsuit.
 
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I would argue one can look at the rapidly rising case numbers across the US and Europe and make a compelling argument they are not the answer....at least in those areas. That doesn’t mean they don’t help or are marginally effective btw. Simply means that masks aren’t going to keep case numbers under a reasonable number or manageable growth rate.
With other factors as causes for rising #'s, I just can't buy that though case #'s are rising exponentially, that wouldn't be significantly higher without mask mandates. If the cases were growing at a 75% increase over the next few months, as opposed to a 95% increase over the next few months(without a mask mandate) then in my mind it would be worth it to maintain the mandate.(Just throwing out #'s to let you understand my position. Don't know what the #'s are and/or would be.)

If the #'s were 75% and 78-82% without them, then I would have second thoughts about the value of the mask mandate. I just don't think we can be sure which figures would be closer to the truth. Thus my support of the mask mandate.

To speak in terms of a known position of yours.(which I agree with) The hospitals ability to function and death count could immediately inundate us until we have a vaccine. Where as, the threat of the environmental climate change is not as immediate. Trying to find solutions to fight global warming that help minimize the damage, rather than resolving the problem, would not cause nearly as severe a problem immediately as the virus could.
 
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