Agree. There is zero point to shutting down again. We destroyed countless lives by shutting down only to delay death, not prevent it. People that are susceptible will get it and could die. If I get it and die, I do NOT expect all of you to lose your jobs in a futile attempt to contain it. It will still exist and still spread...that much is clear. It spread and killed 1000, then 10000, then 100000. All while we came close to destroying our country and economy. Then the LIBS ays, "well, we didn't do the shutdown right". Really...I'm sorry I still had to feed my family and go to the store once a week. Or do you live on your own farm where you never have to leave for months at a time? Goodness. It is what it is. Stop blaming everyone. Care for yourself and family. The virus was not Trumps fault. Not mandating masks in April is not the reason 200000 people have died. Biden looks into the camera at the debate and blames Trump for your loved one not being at your table because of COVID. What a moron. Hell, Fauci is still deciding if we should mandate it now or not. But yeah, all Trumps fault. I voted for Trump after I saw that crap during the debate with Biden. Biden will likely still win, and it will hardly affect me (I hope). But goodness what a load of crap Biden is.
Covid Lies
- Thread starter shon46
- Start date
He went down in service to the community. Condolences to his family.
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According to Shon he must have been old, decrepit, and/or overweight, so it's ok.
Side note:
According to Shon he must have been old, decrepit, and/or overweight, so it's ok.
And that’s the most dangerous thing of all.
Unfortunately I think it’s going to get worse if they let fans in the gym during highschool basketball season
Couple of questions . The first Covid narrative was that it’s spread was due to the lack of tests. Second narrative was it’s spread was due to lack of masks.
Fast forward: We’re seeing record high infections now across Europe (headed this way btw). We are testing over 1M per day as is Europe. Almost all of Europe has mandatory mask policies. Maybe time to admit the narratives were / are wrong ?
Fast forward: We’re seeing record high infections now across Europe (headed this way btw). We are testing over 1M per day as is Europe. Almost all of Europe has mandatory mask policies. Maybe time to admit the narratives were / are wrong ?
Or maybe the temperatures did more to keep it in check during the summer than thought. There is not enough evidence to verify the cause.
The dems would now like you to stay home and never leave. Close down all businesses. But not theirs so theycan keep making money. And definitely not nancies hair stylist.
My question is since when did those people with those conditions lives not matter?
I agree! It’s obvious now that this is the case. If we ever want to return to normalcy, we have to come to the reality that only the strong survive. People who need to protect themselves should protect themselves but the rest should get back to business as usual. Many countries are rejecting the current seemingly senseless measures. Italy had mass riots this week protesting shutdown, Manchester UK refused the gov order to shut down, and today in Germany all restaurants and bars closed so we will see how the people react.
Society and government owes a responsibility to protect the vulnerable. This is where I believe our efforts as well as those of most of the world have been misplaced. We need to protect that segment of the population who is truly at risk from this virus by devoting more resources toward them. Treating all age groups and those with at risk factors the same makes no sense but we’ve seen a blanket policy regarding this virus. Such policies harm everyone. We know this virus is dangerous to the elderly. We know this virus is dangerous to those with certain health conditions like obesity. We now know more testing isn’t the answer (assume we’ve always known that btw) as well as masks. Figure out a plan to protect our at risk segment while minimizing the effect on those with little to no risks.
I don't understand, "it was spread due to lack of tests" unless that means we didn't know who had it and they didn't know they had so they gave it to others. Even with testing readily accessible, that is still the case. Albeit to a lesser degree.
Still, people forget this virus is novel and we are learning as we go.
But, forgetting the "novel" piece does make for great poorly framed facts to fit narratives/conspiracy theories.
FWIW, a key stat to look in terms of spread rate is test positivity percentage.
The record highs are already showing up in the US.
Look at St Francis 1 page ad in the Tulsa World. El Paso having to fly patients out of town.
And, there are other communities implementing triage style treatment decisions.
That's crap and you know it.
Most non Trump supporters want some levels of protection without a lockdown.
The problem is, Trump has brainwashed his followers to such a degree they can no longer think critically and can only spout off and repeat what Trump says.
They think masks and social distancing are stupid, the Chinese made this in conjunction with the dems to bring down Trump (Trump and China were buddies until this blew up in his face), and that it will all go away if Trump is re-elected.
Which is my point. The US and Europe have enough tests at this point where everyone who needs or even wants a test can get one. Yet both regions are seeing or about to see record infections. Thus it appears having more than adequate testing isn’t the answer to stopping the spread of the virus. Same for the wearing of masks. The only real “novel” part of this virus is the asymptomatic part. It spreads very much like most virus via airborn particles. The infection numbers here are about to get a lot worse. Again...tests and masks aren’t the answer. The only measure which seems to have an appreciable effect is not getting near each other.
For the record, Trumps policies regarding China from day one were very aggressive and Trump continued and grew the Obama era strategy to pivot to Asia and added to it with enormous Tarifs so no, Trump and China were never friends. Secondly, you know as well as I do that American 🇺🇸 will not stand for what they perceive as their rights being infringed on in any way shape or form. You personally may not have a problem with wearing a mask or social distancing but it’s pretty clear millions of Americans don’t feel the same. Americans are not the only ones who feel this way. There are massive protest and riots worldwide. This isn’t about Trump. People in Europe, South America, and Africa could care less or even know who Trump is. For them and for us , it’s about Freedom wether you agree with it or not!
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Testing was considered key to defeat the virus and for re-opening. It still is, but can't be if cases get out of control. An example of how testing helps to slow the spread: Someone works in a restaurant and gets sick. They get the test and it is COVID. Now all of their co-workers also get tested. So do known customers. Some are positive and get sick shortly thereafter, some are negative. And you can reduce the spread by knowing that and sending those positive cases home to quarantine before they work another shift. You might even find an asymptomatic carriers and slow the spread by keeping them home instead of all over town doing their normal thing.
Testing alone isn't going to stop the spread entirely unless the caseload is very very low. The effectiveness of massive testing breaks down if the outbreak is so rampant that it effectively overwhelms the contact tracers. If it takes the contact tracers assigned to your case a couple of days to get to you, and then another couple of days to track down the employees and customers at the restaurant, then you have largely missed your window of opportunity to identify cases before they spread it in turn. The contact tracers are now always "one step behind".
And that leads to the last point, which is that we still don't have what we need with the testing. We need rapid testing. That was always the goal, but the early rapid tests were total unregulated garbage. Some are still around, but I can say that at my wife's hospital, the result from their rapid test machine is only considered preliminary. The result is confirmed only by a nasal swab that gets sent off to the lab and analyzed 3 days later. We still don't have widespread, accurate, and easy rapid testing. Imagine if you could reliably test everyone in a restaurant before they start their shift? Or you could require all employees of a big office building to get a rapid test once a week? Or before boarding a plane? There's no way that wouldn't help.
Masks are another issue entirely. They only work if people use them. Even then, they are not 100% effective. And a lot of people don't wear them, even in Europe. France just had a mask burning protest. Italy had a big protest of renewed lockdowns. The US doesn't have a monopoly on covid fatigue. Also, the weather is turning. We just had ten inches of snow here on Monday. It's been long suspected that COVID survives longer in colder temperatures, which would make it more virulent. But as Weatherdemon said, we don't really know.
I'll grant that masks can give a flase sense of security. They objectively work great at preventing spread from person to person while standing in line at the grocery store. Less so for two people sitting and talking face to face for half an hour. They are still better than nothing in that scenario, but people might engage in the latter thinking they are better protected than they are. Even so, I think they are a net win.
Masks don’t work. Look and learn from Europe!
Germany set for new partial lockdown as cases surge amid second wave of Covid-19
https://www.rt.com/news/504836-germany-coronavirus-lockdown-merkel/
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Doesn’t seem to working in Europe where a vast majority of people have been wearing masks. Their infection rate is currently higher than the US. I’m not arguing against masks but I am saying those who believe they’re a silver bullet are absolutely wrong
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We as well as Europe have seen a steady increase in testing over the past two to three months. Yet the number of infections continue to rise. Currently at an alarming rate. I would argue testing has a limited effect on infection rates simply by looking at the statistics. Other factors are obviously at play such as weather, schools opening etc... However, I’m not currently seeing any correlation between number of daily tests and decreasing infections here or in Europe. Thoughts?
I agree that there is only so much impact you can have if testing turnaround takes 3-5 days. That means the testing is only giving you a rearview mirror look at who got infected a week or two ago, which doesn't give you a good chance of "catching up" to the current disease vectors that are spreading it around so you can stop them. And that is how testing makes a difference.
The rapid testing is what will make a much larger dent. It will cut several days off of that 'rearview mirror' perspective, and it could be implemented in a way to catch it in the general population of a workforce. But we don't have reliable rapid testing on any kind of scale.
EDIT: And with masks, I will reiterate that part of it may be that they give people a false sense of security. They do work, but homemade ones are of varying quality, and they probably don't work very well for face to face conversations or riding together in cars, etc. People might be doing those things (here and in Europe) thinking they are better protected than they are.
Seems to be working in Japan. They've had 1,726 deaths total.
If anything it would do nothing but help the cause. We have double the number of Covid deaths of any countries besides favela-laden Brazil and Caste System India.
Unfortunately, we have a European society and genetics for the most part not Asian.
Oh, yeah of course. N95 masks and the like are a whole other thing. My wife has repeatedly come into close contact with COVID patients and has never gotten it by virtue largely of the N95 mask. It's also largely unavailable to the public. So I was mostly talking about the basic surgical masks and homemade cloth masks that everyday people wear.
Which are not worthless, just less effective.
Meaning we have a bunch of assholes that are selfish and would rather put their comfort over the safety of the community.
As does apparently every other nation on earth sans Japan....or maybe something more complex is going on like genetics 🤷♂️
There are two sides to every coin. There are literally a billion other people on this planet who disagree with your view.
There are also over a million people who don’t have a view because they are dead due to covid
I have family members included in those numbers and may God rest their soul. Stepping outside of my pain, decisions should be based on the greater good for all rather than the needs of a few. Mandating masks and enforcing social distancing don’t work and are not in the interest of the greater good.
My son wore an N95 when required to wear a mask at football.
He was PO'ED when he got COVID-19.
Even crazier, I didn't think about wearing a mask when I took him to get tested so I was in the car with him for an hour, 2.5 days after symptom onset plus being around him at the house. Neither my wife nor I tested positive.
Didn't change how often we wear masks but, it was frustrating for him and strange for us.
Genetics isn't preventing covid. New Zealand is similar and they share pretty much zero genetic makeup with Japan. In terms of deaths per 100,000 people, Venezuela and Pakistan are kicking our butts too. Heck even Egypt is doing better than we are and they have one of the most densely populated cities in the world. (Cairo has more people than NYC)
That's not true. They locked down in March / April just like the US did. They also have mask mandates. https://tribune.com.pk/story/227021...lic-places-as-second-covid-wave-hits-pakistan
Venezuela has locked down multiple times because they can't afford PPE. They do officially have a mask mandate though.
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/which-countries-are-requiring-face-masks
The only one that requires facemasks and that are doing exceptionally poorly in terms of deaths are India and France. India because it's so poor and France probably because people are being A**holes about wearing them (also France was hit hard early on)
