Bob Woodward Trump Tapes

[astonmartin708]

I know it was broken by CNN so of course there's bias here... but Woodward has proven to be a rather upright journalist with his history on the Nixon / Watergate scandal. This interview that Trump did with Woodward proves exactly what I've been arguing for months... that Trump knew and about how bad this virus could be and he continued to not just downplay the extent of the it, but straight up deny its legitimacy. He's giving Woodward an interview in early February talking about how it's airborne and how it's not just effecting the elderly.... then a few weeks later he's at a rally calling it a "Democratic Hoax".

I'm not saying that the president shouldn't have the right to try and keep the American population calm during a time of crisis. They should, of course, be allowed a strategy that might involve pointing out all of the preparation that an administration has already done and is currently doing to safeguard the American public. On the other hand straight up lying for MONTHS about the evidence he had already been presented is borderline criminal. If the administration knew about the airborne nature of the virus back in February, we should have at least had a plan for mask mandates in place by early March when the virus really started to explode in the US.

People here like to blame the decision to transfer Covid patients into nursing homes... well, imagine how that decision might have been different if there was notice given to the state and local officials that caution, due to airborne transmissability, might be necessary? Or, imagine the benefit we might have had if half of the nation wasn't crying "hoax" or "flu" for a month or more when this virus was starting to spread.

I don't appreciate myself and my fellow citizens being lied to repeatedly when the safety of hundreds of thousands of innocent people is at stake. That's been my biggest qualm with Trump since I first started to take notice of him at the RNC conventions in 2015. He straight up lies much to often. I admit that every president lies, but for Trump it's the only thing he's able to fall back on and it bit him, and all of us, in the ass.

 

[TUMe]

Yeah, I'm kinda neutral on this. I see three possible conclusions.

1. Trump is an idiot for telling Woodward this. He is a newsman who was famous for getting Nixon removed.

2. Woodward is playing with the dates to hawk his new book.

3. In either 1 or 2 Trump is still an idiot for giving Woodward an interview.

 

[astonmartin708]

Yeah, I'm kinda neutral on this. I see three possible conclusions.

1. Trump is an idiot for telling Woodward this. He is a newsman who was famous for getting Nixon removed.

2. Woodward is playing with the dates to hawk his new book.

3. In either 1 or 2 Trump is still an idiot for giving Woodward an interview.

I mean, would any of us be surprised that Trump wanted more attention from influential people? Woodward is kind of a journalistic icon. I would be VERY surprised if he doctored his dates. Woodward always wrote with a bias against certain administrations, but it tended to be because those administrations were doing shady stuff.

 

[TUMe]

I mean, would any of us be surprised that Trump wanted more attention from influential people? Woodward is kind of a journalistic icon. I would be VERY surprised if he doctored his dates. Woodward always wrote with a bias against certain administrations, but it tended to be because those administrations were doing shady stuff.

I have to agree.

 

[lawpoke87]

The key to me would be when did the CDC recommend mandatory masks and did Trump ignore the recommendation? I assume the procedure should have been for the CDC recommendation then the governors issuing the mandates. From what we say early on in the crisis the governors made it fairly clear...their state their rules.

 

[astonmartin708]

The key to me would be when did the CDC recommend mandatory masks and did Trump ignore the recommendation? I assume the procedure should have been for the CDC recommendation then the governors issuing the mandates. From what we say early on in the crisis the governors made it fairly clear...their state their rules.

I think, while that is certainly a component, it's not the only item at issue here. I think the public would have been much more responsible if they were even slightly better informed about the potential severity of the virus early on and that might have made a big difference in the ability of these governors to impose mandates for public safety. They wouldn't have been fighting as many far-right nutjobs who were calling it a hoax.

It isn't advantageous in a crisis of that magnitude for the public to not be at least somewhat informed of a looming threat. In a democracy where public perception often steers political action, you can't afford to have a voter base who is uninformed to the point that they're supporting decisions that will hinder the survival of a large portion of them. That's the same reason why leaders who drive their countries into wars under false pretenses are bad leaders.

 

[lawpoke87]

I don’t necessarily disagree but it is the role of our medical professionals (CDC) to set forth guidelines. Especially during a pandemic. Non doctors lack the expertise to mandate something like masks without a directive from our agency whose job it is to keep us safe during such a crisis. When did the CDC recommend the public wear masks?

 

[astonmartin708]

I don’t necessarily disagree but it is the role of our medical professionals (CDC) to set forth guidelines. Especially during a pandemic. Non doctors lack the expertise to mandate something like masks without a directive from our agency whose job it is to keep us safe during such a crisis. When did the CDC recommend the public wear masks?

In mid March the CDC was still only publicly advocating masks for sick people or those caring for the sick. Some suggested at the time that the CDC was trying to prevent public runs on masks so as the healthcare industry would have them when needed. At the same time though the head of the Chinese CDC was saying that American and Europe were making a big mistake in not having people were some sort of face covering. I see both sides here, but letting the entire public continue to go out in public without any sort of face covering at all was probably not a good move on the CDC's part. Overall I think the CDC receives a D- grade during this. Their bungling of the initial tests, their suggestions regarding the re-bedding of people into nursing homes, their non guidance on masks....

That all still doesn't absolve Trump for misleading the public knowingly and extensively.

 

[lawpoke87]

Looks like Fauci is throwing a wet towel on Woodward’s assertions. Guess one could argue Fauci misled the public as well and is covering his ass?

 

[TUMe]

I thought Fauci look bewildered and trapped. He might hang up his cleats when this is over...if he lasts that long.

 

[astonmartin708]

Looks like Fauci is throwing a wet towel on Woodward’s assertions. Guess one could argue Fauci misled the public as well and is covering his ass?

I don't know what assertions Woodward himself made. It was Trump himself that said these things.

The only thing I've seen regarding Fauci recently is that some of the policy advisors at the HHS are playing politics with the medical advice that Fauci is supposed to be giving.

When Fauci today was talking about what Trump said in the Woodward tapes he said that Trump didn't say anything TO WOODWARD that was different than what his discussions were with the President. He didn't say that Trump's early language to the public wasn't different than what was being discussed internally.

 

[lawpoke87]

Fauci has said from the outset that Trump did every mitigation action which he recommended. He further stated that he was under no direction or constraints from what he was able to say publicly. Based on what Fauci was saying as well as the CDC I simply don't see a lot to this story as it relates to Trump. He appears to have followed what he was being told by both parties. Our biggest issue was and remains the lack of protection for our elderly

 

[astonmartin708]

Fauci has said from the outset that Trump did every mitigation action which he recommended. He further stated that he was under no direction or constraints from what he was able to say publicly. Based on what Fauci was saying as well as the CDC I simply don't see a lot to this story as it relates to Trump. He appears to have followed what he was being told by both parties. Our biggest issue was and remains the lack of protection for our elderly

I'm sorry Lawpoke, I typically respect your opinion and I appreciate your views but on this point you are turning a blind eye to something that's really problematic. I'm not just talking about Trump, I'm talking about future leaders of America (executive or otherwise) that are watching this behavior and are seeing that the American people (at least some of them) are willing to put up with it. You love to rail against Obama for the "you can keep your doctor" lie which effected a percentage of Americans (and you personally I believe), but it's unlikely that many have died as a result of switching doctors or insurance plans. On the other hand you're just giving a pass to the guy who publicly sought to convince his base that the pandemic like nothing when he absolutely knew the opposite and people absolutely died because of the carelessness that he promoted. He might have changed his tune, but it was too little to late and he only begrudgingly began promoting the ideas that experts were telling him later in the cycle of the virus while still propping up pseudoscience that everything was going to magically get better with hydroxychloroquine or the coming summer weather.

This behavior just opens the door for politicians to make bigger bolder lies in the future which have a potential for even more harm. We can't just give them a pass on this. We have to draw a line somewhere. We didn't draw it when Clinton said "I did not have sexual relations....". We didn't draw it when Cheney, acting as a mouthpiece for Bush, said "we have no doubt that Sadaam has Weapons of Mass Destruction". We didn't draw it when Obama said "you can keep your doctor". I think lying to the American people about the severity of a real existential threat to both our health and our economic well being is just about the gravest lie that you can commit as a Commander in Chief. It's one thing to lie about your mistress, or even your motives for war, or an element of your healthcare policy... but to lie about the nature of a biological virus that will always have the potential to make its way into the United States... that's just ethically, logically, and fundamentally wrong and Republicans need to join Democrats in acknowledging that.

This isn't a Red vs. Blue issue anymore. This is a right vs. wrong issue.

I don't want to hear about how the US stacks up statistically against other nations that were effected in different ways. I want our country to address how we as a society (from our leaders to our gas station attendants) handled this pandemic and we admittedly handled it poorly. Where does the buck stop and how do we make sure we react better next time? Those are the real issues at hand.

 

[lawpoke87]

I’ll ask again....how did Trump deviate from CDC policy of the advice of Fauci? Fauci was publicly dismissing the virus in February. I have no doubt that Trump wanted to prevent panic and keep business as close to normal as possible during a pandemic. However, this comes down to did he dismiss the advice of the CDC and Fauci and go rogue in this crisis. If he did then I’m all ears.

The first step in handling future pandemics imo would be to limit the ability of governors (or any public officials) to purposely infect those who are the most at risk and if they do choose then action should be taken.

 

[astonmartin708]

I’ll ask again....how did Trump deviate from CDC policy of the advice of Fauci? Fauci was publicly dismissing the virus in February. I have no doubt that Trump wanted to prevent panic and keep business as close to normal as possible during a pandemic. However, this comes down to did he dismiss the advice of the CDC and Fauci and go rogue in this crisis. If he did then I’m all ears.

The first step in handling future pandemics imo would be to limit the ability of governors (or any public officials) to purposely infect those who are the most at risk and if they do choose then action should be taken.

Lawpoke, there is a distinct difference between cautiously downplaying the virus and accusing the entire idea of the virus making its way to America as a "Democratic Hoax". Fauci never said anything like that. As I said in the first paragraph of this thread... I realize that there will be times when information can and should be omitted or fibbed about to the American public for reasons of national safety. But I would never okay the outright denial of crucial facts regarding a contagion nor would it be okay to blame the opposite party for telling the truth and to call them liars. That doesn't prevent panic it just sows devision when things get really bad. It would be like an army general blaming the fact that an enemy unit was about to overrun your position on the air force's bad intelligence when the air force were the ones that were telling you about the impending threat of the enemy for months. Trump flat out refused to acknowledge that there was a threat at all, and that's irresponsible and dangerous.

It's okay to say, "We believe that we have the response to the virus under control and that we've altered procedures and increased production of materials in efforts to prepare to fight any contagious threat. My administration feels America is prepared to deal with any invader physical or biological. In the meantime we ask that every citizen exercise caution and we suggest wearing masks in public until a time at which the threat has passed". That's how you promote cautious non-panic. It's not okay to say "The Republicans are liars and everything's going to be okay, just go about your daily lives" That's how you get people killed.


As to your second point it's ridiculous. No governor, not even Cuomo, PURPOSEFULLY infected people. I don't even accuse Trump of that. They might have made bad decisions out of desperation, or self aggrandizement, or stupidity that led to infections but they weren't out of malice. The fact that governors are in charge of medical response during pandemics at all is ridiculous. They don't have the insight or the support to handle that task and differences in approach among states just promotes further transmission as a next door neighbor might not be told to wear a mask like your are.

 

[TUMe]

I’ll ask again....how did Trump deviate from CDC policy of the advice of Fauci? Fauci was publicly dismissing the virus in February. I have no doubt that Trump wanted to prevent panic and keep business as close to normal as possible during a pandemic. However, this comes down to did he dismiss the advice of the CDC and Fauci and go rogue in this crisis. If he did then I’m all ears.

The first step in handling future pandemics imo would be to limit the ability of governors (or any public officials) to purposely infect those who are the most at risk and if they do choose then action should be taken.

This was a bad thing, and as I have stated stupid. But don't act like it is unheard of.

" So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself" And when did FDR say that? In his first address as President. Besides fear itself there was also losing your job, losing your savings, breadlines, hobo camps, WPA, and CCCamps. Later there was an awful attack on Pearl Harbor, war that was fought on two sides of the planet, D Day, you know about Hitler, then the Atomic bomb.

Many of those things weren't preventable and whether you want to acknowledge it or not this is a world pandemic. So cut Lawpoke a little slack. You can attack Trump as I have for stupidity. There are no mulligans in a pandemic for those in charge of protecting people. There have been other pandemics, but none quite like this.

 

[lawpoke87]

We declared a national health emergency on January 30th. We declared a national emergency on March 13th. I’m unclear how those actions coincide to a failure to declare the virus a threat. Remember on January 26th Fauci said the virus presented a very low risk to the US. Look...I think Trump says and does stupid things 24/7. However, I’m repeating things Fauci and the CDC told or didn’t tell us. Did Trump know things Fauci and the CDC didn’t? I can’t give him that amount of credit. Not to mention Fauci said Trump took every action which he recommended....aside from the stupid comments

I assume if Trump ordered Covid positive patients be moved to nursing homes you would be accusing him of murder btw.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

The one thing Trump has not done is fully support the wearing of masks. He halfheartedly supported them late in the game. He continues to refuse wearing a mask in most situations or to ask his followers at campaign events to wear them/keep social distance. He did nothing to dispel his ardent base from carrying on with the insurgent disgust(at masks) that he helped inspire in them at the beginning of the viral outbreak.

If you inspire that in people, don't wear masks most of the time, and tell the public in a deadpan nonplussed voice, "oh we should wear masks now," it doesn't really convince your base to do otherwise. He knows that and still carries on the same anyway. When you don't do what you know needs to be done to convince a large part of the public, then that's not doing your job. This causes deaths. It's not so trivial as being upset over taxes or whatever.(as a result of Presidential actions)

 

[Weatherdemon]

I’ll ask again....how did Trump deviate from CDC policy of the advice of Fauci? Fauci was publicly dismissing the virus in February. I have no doubt that Trump wanted to prevent panic and keep business as close to normal as possible during a pandemic. However, this comes down to did he dismiss the advice of the CDC and Fauci and go rogue in this crisis. If he did then I’m all ears.

The first step in handling future pandemics imo would be to limit the ability of governors (or any public officials) to purposely infect those who are the most at risk and if they do choose then action should be taken.

The problem is less his intent and more so his execution.

He 100% lied about how bad it was. By the time he was honest, he divided America how to be safe. Then, he made it political. Then, he lied about believing the Chinese. Then he promotes unproven “cures”. Then, he defied his own administrations recommendations multiple times, starting in Tulsa.
So now, decisions are being driven for purely political reasons from the people all the way to him.

I don’t care if your the supervisor of grave diggers or the President, that is not how you lead during a crisis of any kind.

 

[astonmartin708]

The problem is less his intent and more so his execution.

He 100% lied about how bad it was. By the time he was honest, he divided America how to be safe. Then, he made it political. Then, he lied about believing the Chinese. Then he promotes unproven “cures”. Then, he defied his own administrations recommendations multiple times, starting in Tulsa.
So now, decisions are being driven for purely political reasons from the people all the way to him.

I don’t care if your the supervisor of grave diggers or the President, that is not how you lead during a crisis of any kind.

Spot on.

 

[astonmartin708]

We declared a national health emergency on January 30th. We declared a national emergency on March 13th. I’m unclear how those actions coincide to a failure to declare the virus a threat. Remember on January 26th Fauci said the virus presented a very low risk to the US. Look...I think Trump says and does stupid things 24/7. However, I’m repeating things Fauci and the CDC told or didn’t tell us. Did Trump know things Fauci and the CDC didn’t? I can’t give him that amount of credit. Not to mention Fauci said Trump took every action which he recommended....aside from the stupid comments

I assume if Trump ordered Covid positive patients be moved to nursing homes you would be accusing him of murder btw.

Please find me a time that Fauci said the virus was a Democratic Hoax. Don't worry. I'll wait.

 

[astonmartin708]

This was a bad thing, and as I have stated stupid. But don't act like it is unheard of.

" So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself" And when did FDR say that? In his first address as President. Besides fear itself there was also losing your job, losing your savings, breadlines, hobo camps, WPA, and CCCamps. Later there was an awful attack on Pearl Harbor, war that was fought on two sides of the planet, D Day, you know about Hitler, then the Atomic bomb.

Many of those things weren't preventable and whether you want to acknowledge it or not this is a world pandemic. So cut Lawpoke a little slack. You can attack Trump as I have for stupidity. There are no mulligans in a pandemic for those in charge of protecting people. There have been other pandemics, but none quite like this.

You can fight through a depression. You can't always fight through a viral plague-like event. There are times to try and instill confidence so as to make people keep fighting and there are times for them to be better informed about the problem at hand. FDR didn't go around saying for a few days after Pearl Harbor that it was actually a Republican Hoax and that the US wouldn't be at war. He made an address and told the American people about what happened.

 

[TU83]

Spot on.

Agree
Spot On

 

[aTUfan]

i dont get it.
Normally when Trump says anything, the left screams that he is lying. Now they believe him? Huuuuum!

 

[Weatherdemon]

i dont get it.
Normally when Trump says anything, the left screams that he is lying. Now they believe him? Huuuuum!

Well, he lied somewhere in this.
Do you think it was:
A) To Woodward in an interview.
B) To the American Public multiple times.
C) All of the above and then some.

 

[Clong83a]

Yeah, I'm kinda neutral on this. I see three possible conclusions.

1. Trump is an idiot for telling Woodward this. He is a newsman who was famous for getting Nixon removed.

2. Woodward is playing with the dates to hawk his new book.

3. In either 1 or 2 Trump is still an idiot for giving Woodward an interview.

I guess the White House call logs confirm the dates, as Trump made some of these calls himself through the White House switchboard. So I am going with #1.

Even if you are a big Trump fan, it is hard to understand why he would give Bob Woodward, of all people, a series of candid interviews. Did he forget about the critical book Woodward already wrote about his administration?!?

Edit:

Also, he leaked nuclear secrets to Woodward in the same interviews. That isn’t as sexy right now and isn’t getting as much press, but I’d be in jail or in hiding right now if I said something of that scope to a reporter for publication.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

i dont get it.
Normally when Trump says anything, the left screams that he is lying. Now they believe him? Huuuuum!

Whereas you believe all the lies, and dismiss all the negative, even coming out of his mouth. Trump can do no wrong. I don't remember one truly critical word coming out of your keyboard about Trump, despite your sporadic claims of not being a 'Trump Supporter'.

When someone admits something negative about themselves, even if they don't think it's negative, they are usually being truthful. When they say something positive about their actions that's up to their character and what is being said, as to it's honesty.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

C) Trump talk.

 

[aTUfan]

Well, he lied somewhere in this.
Do you think it was:
A) To Woodward in an interview.
B) To the American Public multiple times.
C) All of the above and then some.

You can keep you doctor or insurance if you want.
I did not have sex ..
the dossier
...

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Trump is a blazing idiot. He doubles down on lie after lie, when he shouldn't. Then after admitting in a taped interview that he knew the severity of the virus early on, while having spoken the opposite in front of tv cameras, he denies it. After having made the mistake of talking honestly in the taped interview, he should have realized it was the right time to double down. He should have stuck with the falsehood he admitted to in the interview. If he just maintained that he was trying not to cause panic among the public, his base would have bought that. The one time doubling down was the proper thing to do for his campaign...

He managed to not lose the election on stupid stuff like this the first time around. It looks like he will lose because of all the constant negative free press he is giving himself. What won him the election against Hillary is likely going to lose this election against anybody. It doesn't matter what Joe Biden or any other candidate does or doesn't do. All of this self inflicted negative press that he keeps giving himself, is like massive ad space for the Biden campaign. Biden could not even advertise, and he might still win. He needs to shut up for once. Not for the public's benefit, but for his own.

 

[astonmartin708]

I have zero confidence that Biden will win this election to be honest. I think there's too much going for Republicans in terms of swing states and they've done a good job of making white suburban voters afraid of black rioters and making a small but significant number black voters think that the D's are trying to keep them "in chains". The drop in African American turnout will hurt Biden in places like Wisconsin, and the suburban vote will hurt him in places like Ohio + Florida. The D's meanwhile are basically trying to run out the clock like Phillip Montgomery in the 3rd quarter.

 

[Weatherdemon]

You can keep you doctor or insurance if you want.
I did not have sex ..
the dossier
...

So, your answer is C.
Thanks.

 

[aTUfan]

So, your answer is C.
Thanks.

the start a list of democrat lies

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I have zero confidence that Biden will win this election to be honest. I think there's too much going for Republicans in terms of swing states and they've done a good job of making white suburban voters afraid of black rioters and making a small but significant number black voters think that the D's are trying to keep them "in chains". The drop in African American turnout will hurt Biden in places like Wisconsin, and the suburban vote will hurt him in places like Ohio + Florida. The D's meanwhile are basically trying to run out the clock like Phillip Montgomery in the 3rd quarter.

I hope you are wrong but I'm not betting against you on this. The right just seems to ignore all the negative, and/or have it filtered through Fox news, which just turns the sh*t into shinola.

 

[shon46]

The key to me would be when did the CDC recommend mandatory masks and did Trump ignore the recommendation? I assume the procedure should have been for the CDC recommendation then the governors issuing the mandates. From what we say early on in the crisis the governors made it fairly clear...their state their rules.

The CDC never recommend masks for this pandemic. The CDC library has scientific research pushing the case for and against masks. Faucci is the one who ordered the research against masks removed from the CDC Public website. As for Trump, he was stuck between a rock and hard place. There were many unknowns in the beginning so why hype something up when you don’t have the facts. Not like China shared with anybody what was going on. Faucci predicted millions dead. Trump listened to other staff members and accurately predicted that it wouldn’t be that bad. Either you believe in the justification for shutdown or you don’t. Everybody has their own opinion on that but so far, it’s really hard to argue Trump did anything wrong with his approach.