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Afghanistan 2021...

We spent $66B and 15 years training an army which will be routed in less than 6 months by the Chinese backed Taliban.
 
The only thing I can make sense of it, is that there are too many Taliban spies in the Afghani army for it to have any hope 🙏 of success. They know what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, and what tactics and equipment they are going to utilize, almost as quickly as the Afghani army does.
 
We spent $66B and 15 years training an army which will be routed in less than 6 months by the Chinese backed Taliban.

Not really a shock, but it’s not a result of them not being capable. We haven’t been fighting a war in Afghanistan in nearly a decade. We’ve just been a small presence not doing anything but providing air support. When heads start getting chopped off the average ANA’s calculus changes because they don’t think their govt will hold and they don’t want to be next. Pulling the rug like we did is going to be a moral stain on this country when we see the results in the next couple years. One of my Uber drivers a few months back was a former terp heading back to Afghanistan because he was afraid his family was going to be hunted down. He had scars on his arms and face from an IED. He was praying we wouldn’t pull out. All I could do is thank him for all he did for us and tell him I’d pray for him and his family.

There is no fiscal, moral, or strategic justification that makes this right.
 
This is what happens when you try to prop up artificially created regimes thousands of miles away. If anyone had though anything different would happen since 2002 they were just disregarding reality.

There’s a reason we never really left Japan Germany or Korea.
 
This is what happens when you try to prop up artificially created regimes thousands of miles away. If anyone had though anything different would happen since 2002 they were just disregarding reality.

There’s a reason we never really left Japan Germany or Korea.
Korean war never ended. No peace treaty, only a cease fire.

If Truman hadnt been in power we would have likely ceded them to the Russians.
 
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It’s sad, but there is no reason for us to be there. There honestly never was any reason. The ‘War on Terror’ was not winnable. Just cut our losses and get out same as Vietnam.
 
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Agree it’s not winnable but I’m not sure we should take a hands off approach like pre 9-11. Allowing terrorist organizations free reign overseas and unlimited resources is a recipe for further mass attacks. I don’t think we have to do anything on the scale of Afghanistan but we do need to devote resources and military assets.
 
At some point the people have to understand the sending uniform troops into a country where they don't know the language or culture, can't tell the good guys from the bad guys because they all look the same and don't wear uniforms, and think they can change things in a few years is folly. It happened in Vietnam, Iraq, and now Afghanistan. Almost 20 years ago when I was arguing here against the invasion of Iraq, I had two main concerns: 1. Iraq had no WMD's and 2. we weren't learning anything from Viet Nam. Mi Lai would happen again; it did in Abu Ghraib. etc. etc. I'm not patting myself on the back because these are not deep thoughts; they are obvious lessons. We keep doing the same thing and expecting different outcomes.

Thinking that Afghanistan would be different was particularly wrong headed. No one has successfully occupied or changed the Afghans, particularly a invading white Christian nation. The Brits suffered humiliating defeats in the mid 19th century, the Russians got no where, and predictably so did we.

Aston makes a good point about not leaving Korea and Japan making a difference, but at least with Japan we didn't send in troops on the ground. We knew the death toll would be horrific. Also Japan had a functioning respected central government which surrendered.
 
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I would argue our occupation of Afghanistan was successful. Actually very successful based on the history of that country. The problem is occurring as we withdrawal. The current government lacks stability and the people are scared of the Taliban…and rightly so. We’ve seen the same scenario play out with ISIS. The only reason that group is now under control is our military. I expect a repeat with the Taliban. Don’t be surprised if we’re committing military assets back in that region in the next five years when the Taliban begin spreading to neighboring countries or projecting terrorism abroad
 
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I'm not patting myself on the back because these are not deep thought
That’s good, because you’re not even addressing the issue of whether we should do what we’re doing now. These are just post-hoc rationalizations for two presidents (three counting vietnam) abandoning allies to massacre. A comforting way to assure yourself that despite the horrific rape, torture, and murder that’s soon to come you’re still on the side that is compassionate.

And fwiw we did successfully occupy Afghanistan, to the point where 2/3 of my time there was walking around Taliban country under virtually zero threat. There was no major impetus for this exit. Just a bored American public and a president who thought he could score some points “bringing the troops home” who weren’t doing much of anything anyway. The nation building crap is a fool’s errand, but “war forever to turn Afghanistan into America or get up and leave” is a false choice. The proof of that is our last decade there.
 
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Our political and military leadership is either lying about this or dumb and incompetent. Probably all of the above. What an embarrassing admission.

 
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After spending 20 years in that country I have a hard time believe the Taliban could deploy forces and supplies across the country in preparation for this size of offensive without our knowledge. More likely we just didn’t give a damn about the thousands upon thousands of people who helped us these past twenty years and now face certain torture and death. Didn’t care enough to pause the pullout until the situation on the ground could be stabilized.
 
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Our political and military leadership is either lying about this or dumb and incompetent. Probably all of the above. What an embarrassing admission.

After 8 yrs of BHO, our military leadership is probably more comfortable in an encounter group than on a battlefield... look at the current state of our navy.. they lost wargames to a 50 cent diesel sub from norway..
 
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After 8 yrs of BHO, our military leadership is probably more comfortable in an encounter group than on a battlefield... look at the current state of our navy.. they lost wargames to a 50 cent diesel sub from norway..

Between this and our embassy tweeting out “pretty please mr. Taliban stop committing war crimes or you won’t be a part of our community” I really have to wonder what percentage of our leadership are just social science PhDs trying to run a conflict management playbook. There are no chess pieces to move or carrots to dangle. These people respond to a stick that turns them to pink mist and nothing else.
 
I just don’t see significant support in Afghanistan for the government we installed. The country was always just waiting for us to leave. Honestly the South Vietnamese government probably had more public support than this one did.
 
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Hard for many of us to believe a majority of the Afghan people would support such an extremist regime.

Looks like we left hundreds of millions of dollars in military equipment behind in perfectly good working order for the Taliban to now use. Surely heads will roll for this…right ? Just a disaster.

 
Again, support for the corrupt afghan government or not, there is (was) a sizable amount of support for our continued presence there. They weren’t big fans of seeing us in their back yards day after day(They mostly just want to be left alone), but there was plenty of support for us maintaining a presence to prevent Taliban takeover. For many we were easily the lesser of two evils and most importantly we were the strongman. People don’t like being murdered.

Make Afghanistan into America or abandon it was not the actual choice we were facing. That’s the choice people want to pretend we were facing so they can wash their hands and pretend this was a foregone conclusion. The nihilism of “we’ve been there too long, so now we should leave. I accept the terrible consequences of leaving” bothers me, but at least it’s honest about it being a choice. “This was inevitable” is not honest.
 
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If a violent group is attacking your family and you have no confidence in the authorities you do what you have to do to protect your family.
 
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Between this and our embassy tweeting out “pretty please mr. Taliban stop committing war crimes or you won’t be a part of our community” I really have to wonder what percentage of our leadership are just social science PhDs trying to run a conflict management playbook. There are no chess pieces to move or carrots to dangle. These people respond to a stick that turns them to pink mist and nothing else.
"All eyes are drawn to the strong horse."
 
Hard for many of us to believe a majority of the Afghan people would support such an extremist regime.

Looks like we left hundreds of millions of dollars in military equipment behind in perfectly good working order for the Taliban to now use. Surely heads will roll for this…right ? Just a disaster.

Man... this is like operation "Fast and Furious" Biden Style...
 
This from the Wall Street Journal, is almost unbelievable. No preparation was made to allow them to stand on their own feet, even in the short term, if we left?

“In the wake of President Biden’s withdrawal decision, the U.S. pulled its air support, intelligence, and contractors servicing Afghanistan’s planes and helicopters. That meant the Afghan military simply couldn’t operate anymore.”
 
He campaigned as being a more experienced statesmen, and more deft at foreign policy. He failed to show that ability or to listen to his advisors.

When questions are brought by the press, he can't even stand on his own feet. He has all the time in the world to prep for a press conference and react with the least bit of acuity. His advisors should never have let that happen.

The Taliban never wanted us for an ally, with China in the wings. Chiding them based on their so called desire to not upset us was a grand plan.
 
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Trump was atrocious but I always thought we had two poor choices in the last election. And here we are. This hasty withdrawal is a great stain on the USA and we have two administrations to "thank" but Biden gets the lions share of blame.
 
Biden sending thousands of troops for the evacuation...

Anyone say " Operation Eagle Claw"?
 
Hard for many of us to believe a majority of the Afghan people would support such an extremist regime.

Looks like we left hundreds of millions of dollars in military equipment behind in perfectly good working order for the Taliban to now use. Surely heads will roll for this…right ? Just a disaster.

Shouldn’t have had hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment to leave there.
 
Trump was atrocious but I always thought we had two poor choices in the last election. And here we are. This hasty withdrawal is a great stain on the USA and we have two administrations to "thank" but Biden gets the lions share of blame.
Honestly, why do we even care. I’m just happy it’s done. As long as we don’t see a resurgence of terrorist cells in the region, let them kill each other. We need to stop being the world police.

We’re leaving in much the same way the Russians had to in the 80’s. Cut your losses. Move on.
 
Shouldn’t have had hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment to leave there.
You obviously need the equipment to support the troops. Once you pulled the maintenance people I’m not sure why you leave the equipment. Hell….how hard is it to blow the sh*t up on your way out?
 
“Let them kill each other” is a statement I’ll remember then next time I’m being accused by my moral betters on here of lacking sufficient empathy or compassion for people when I oppose xyz social program.


 
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Honestly, why do we even care. I’m just happy it’s done. As long as we don’t see a resurgence of terrorist cells in the region, let them kill each other. We need to stop being the world police.

We’re leaving in much the same way the Russians had to in the 80’s. Cut your losses. Move on.
Because we are all human beings.
 
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