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Academic Excuse Appears to be NONSENSE, AAC schools don't allow CC classes

JesseTU

I.T.S. Head Coach
Gold Member
Jan 9, 2007
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The question of other institutions degree requirements was recently raised. The Tulsa World made a couple of calls to try and figure it out today - I spent my lunch following up. I didn't look at everyone in our conference, but I looked at a few that are academically sound. It should be noted that most Athletic Student Handbooks are readily available online (someone look up East Carolina and UCF).

I spent a lunch hour over this. Met with a client, came back and posted it. So it's quick research. If someone knows better, I looked at an old policy that is no longer valid, I read it wrong, or the institution just lied. TELL ME. I looked out of curiosity, not to advocate a position. But what I found indicates the "No CC" excuse is crap.

All programs have to follow the NCAA minimum guidelines. That includes being enrolled in 12 hours (not sure why the Tulsa World indicated 9. I think that is the number of hours a football players must pass in the fall to stay eligible). If also includes acculmulating 24 hours of credit per year and meeting certain degree progress requirements (terms in hitting 60% of the classes, 80%, etc., requried for your degree by certain time periods). The basic requirements are found here:

http://www.ncaa.org/remaining-eligible-academics

...What we are really looking at is whether other institutions allow students to take classes at local community colleges to pad their University hours. Of the ones I looked at, the answer is NO. Other respectable universities in the AAC do not do allow this. In fact, I didn't look at any other than those listed below... and I don't think any I looked at would allow enrolled students to take CC classes for credit towards eligibility.


1) SMU
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/smu/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/2012-13_SA_Handbook.pdf

They can take a limited number of hours while enrolled at SMU and transfer them to SMU. BUT...
- Must be a regionally accredited college (for non-academic snobs, regionally accreditation is the highest. TCC is a "nationally accredit institution" with some regional two-year accreditation)
- Minimum grade of C- can transfer
- Can not boost your SMU GPA

So no, you could not take TCC courses.


2) Tulane
https://tulane.edu/athletics/academicdevelopment/upload/2010110handbookfinal.pdf

Can take and trasnfer a limited number of credit hours after being enrolled. BUT...
- Must be a regionally accredited college
- Must seek permission
- C or better for credit
- Must have a 2.7 GPA or better with Tulane coursework

Tulane also requires perfect unexcused class attendance, limits summer school, and has remedial coursework that is not for graded credit. If you are not taking 14 credit hours, you are not eligible for the Deans list.

So no, you could not take TCC courses.


3) UCONN
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/conn/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/SAHandbook.pdf

UCONN does not provide funding to take course off campus. You are able to transfer credits in while attending UCONN

but...

- Regionally accredited institution
- Comparable in course content and quality to UCONN
- Must acheive a C or above to transfer
- Course must be on preapproved list or obtain special approval

So no, you could not take TCC courses.


4) Cinci
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/cinn/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/13SAHandbook.pdf
http://admissions.uc.edu/transfer/transfer_credit.html

Cinci athletics points to the Cinci admissions office for transfer requirements. There could be secret guidelines I'm not aware of, BUT...

- Regionally accredit hours only
- Must complete at least 30 hours of Cinci credit to get a Cinci degree

I don't think an enrolled student could take TCC courses.


5) NAVY

Not in our conference yet, but they LOL at our student athlete requirements.

- - -

So I don't see that our competition is allowing the behavior that we are complaining about. Perhaps other schools I didn't look at do allow it. Perhaps we should lower our standards and allow TU graduates to have more community credit hours than TU credit hours. But that isn't the debate.

The statement was that TU cannot compete because we do not allow community credit course work for enrolled student, and as it appears many of our competitors have the same rule... that excuse is crap.
 
Nice work Jesse. I keep trying to figure out what part is putting TU at a disadvantage and individuals continue to enlighten me. One person indicated that what Hoover was actually referring to was that a TU student could not take a class at TCC and use it to replace a failing grade in a similar class at TU. I'm not sure this is new anyway. My understanding from my time at TU as a student and as an administrator is that the only way you could replace a poor grade to boost your GPA is to retake the same course at TU. I know a lot of students who would do that and actually retake the course in summer or a different term when a different professor was teaching it.

Fact is TU has always had stringent requirements regarding what courses and credits you could transfer in. I went to TU as a transfer student and I had to supply a TON of documentation on the courses I took at Boston U for those to count towards degree requirements at TU.

From what I am reading, TU is not doing things much differently from SMU and Tulane and those are institutions I know TU uses as part of its benchmark comparisons.

In an exchange with John Hoover today he said the following:

John E. Hoover[/B]
‏@johnehoover





4h4 hours ago







@TU_BLA Two people at TU told me those classes did boost GPAs. SMU guy told me theirs didn't but did count as SMU credits.

Hoover also said he couldn't disagree with me that a bigger problem was lack of in game adjustments and poor offensive game plan. FWIW
 
Interesting findings.

Fwiw, I really don't think the TCC classes could ever "boost" a gpa. Mine that transfered in was good for the hours only...it was completely excluded grade wise from my gpa. My TU transcript listed the class with the grade separate from everything else.

So in a failed attempt at a TU class, that grade is in effect vacated.

What a crock.
 
I'm also curious as to the funding. I guess TU is basically paying TCC for makeup classes for full scholarship athletes?
 
USF and UCF both describe a grade forgiveness policy in its handbook that applies only for courses repeated there.

Memphis doesn't explicitly state one way or the other.

(Sorry my copy and paste function on the iPad is completely bonkers so I don't have the links)

This post was edited on 11/21 5:24 PM by TUBballJunkie
 
They are nicknamed U Shouldn't Finish and U Can't Finish for a reason.
 
I find it interesting that 4/5 schools listed in the findings are the doormats of the AAC. Could be a direct correlation of academic standards vs having a university with degrees that are easily passed.... Before someone hops on their jump to conclusion mat, YES I know that TU has a lot wrong with it besides just academics
 
Junkie, you used to be able to retake a class at TU and have it replace a worse grade as well as the GPA calculation points from it...is that what you are referring to as grade forgiveness?
 
Originally posted by Chazz Reinhold48:
I find it interesting that 4/5 schools listed in the findings are the doormats of the AAC. Could be a direct correlation of academic standards vs having a university with degrees that are easily passed.... Before someone hops on their jump to conclusion mat, YES I know that TU has a lot wrong with it besides just academics
Academics would be something right with it.
 
I think you can still do that at TU too.

The Florida schools description indicates it has to be at the same institution...so they don't appear to let you erase a grade with a CC makeup either.

At this point, unless someone locates an explicit policy in the AAC that allows what TU stopped allowing, I'm starting to think Hoover just made the rest of his story up.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Or took someone's word for it. Bought into what they were selling.
 
I don't think Hoover made it up but took someone's spin on that singular policy and its potential ramifications. My argument against that since I've read it is to look at the history of TUs transfer credit policy going back 25 years and you will see it has always been tough and rightfully so.
 
I choose to research these schools because I had the impression that everyone else did NOT allow this. So I looked up schools that have good academic reputations and I thought would have similar standards to TU. I merely Googled "University of X Student Athlete Handbook" or policy or similar to find the document... Then read the thing. Those schools too a lunch hour.

So please, go forth and proof your theory of "academic integrity = doormat" but searching other AAC teams, or big time programs for that matter. I did not set out to advocate that the excuse was crap, it is just what I found.

We could always go the UNC route, and just print degrees for athletes.
 
Originally posted by JesseTU:
I choose to research these schools because I had the impression that everyone else did NOT allow this. So I looked up schools that have good academic reputations and I thought would have similar standards to TU. I merely Googled "University of X Student Athlete Handbook" or policy or similar to find the document... Then read the thing. Those schools too a lunch hour.

So please, go forth and proof your theory of "academic integrity = doormat" but searching other AAC teams, or big time programs for that matter. I did not set out to advocate that the excuse was crap, it is just what I found.

We could always go the UNC route, and just print degrees for athletes.
Easy killer... Nobody was disagreeing with you. It was simply a personal observation that tulsa, Tulane, uconn, & smu are all at the bottom of the standings and there could be an argument that these schools have more demanding academics then other schools in the conference, which very we'll could be a correlation to wins and losses in the new conference. Geesh!
 
I wasn't trying to jump you. Just explaining why I choose the schools that I did.
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All the teams you mention stink at football right now :p I don't count Navy, they and the other academies are a cut above.
 
For the 4th time... I did not look at other institutions. Just those listed. If you want to correlate success with CC degrees, go look the other schools up.

Oy!
 
I did. UCF, USF and Memphis don't indicate they do not let you replace and F from anywhere other than their institution. Like TU.

Still waiting for anyone to find a single policy that explicitly allows what TU has disallowed.

People need to stop believing Hoover.
 
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